text:memorabilia_of_socrates
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text:memorabilia_of_socrates [2013/09/22 14:28] – [Memorabilia of Socrates: Xenophon] fredmond | text:memorabilia_of_socrates [2014/01/15 11:58] (current) – external edit 127.0.0.1 | ||
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(1) {oi grapsamenoi} = Meletus (below, IV. iv. 4, viii. 4; " | (1) {oi grapsamenoi} = Meletus (below, IV. iv. 4, viii. 4; " | ||
- | | + | 19), Anytus (" |
- | Diog. Laert. II. v. (Socr.); M. Schanz, "Plat. Apol. mit deutschen | + | Diog. Laert. II. v. (Socr.); M. Schanz, "Plat. Apol. mit deutschen |
- | Kemmentar, Einleitung," | + | |
In the first place, what evidence did they produce that Socrates refused to recognise the gods acknowledged by the state? Was it that he did not sacrifice? or that he dispensed with divination? On the contrary, he was often to be seen engaged in sacrifice, at home or at the common altars of the state. Nor was his dependence on divination less manifest. Indeed that saying of his, "A divinity (2) gives me a sign," was on everybody' | In the first place, what evidence did they produce that Socrates refused to recognise the gods acknowledged by the state? Was it that he did not sacrifice? or that he dispensed with divination? On the contrary, he was often to be seen engaged in sacrifice, at home or at the common altars of the state. Nor was his dependence on divination less manifest. Indeed that saying of his, "A divinity (2) gives me a sign," was on everybody' | ||
(2) Or, "A divine something." | (2) Or, "A divine something." | ||
- | | + | Jackason; "The Daemon of Socrates," |
- | echte und der Xenophontische Sokrates," | + | echte und der Xenophontische Sokrates," |
- | Aristot. "M. M." 1182 a 10. | + | |
(3) See Aesch. "P. V." 487, {enodious te sombolous}, "and pathway | (3) See Aesch. "P. V." 487, {enodious te sombolous}, "and pathway | ||
- | | + | tokens," |
- | " | + | " |
- | 27, 1-7. | + | 27, 1-7. |
(4) See " | (4) See " | ||
(5) Or, "if his vaunted manifestations from heaven had but manifested | (5) Or, "if his vaunted manifestations from heaven had but manifested | ||
- | | + | the falsity of his judgment." |
But his mode of dealing with his intimates has another aspect. As regards the ordinary necessities of life, (6) his advice was, "Act as you believe (7) these things may best be done." But in the case of those darker problems, the issues of which are incalculable, | But his mode of dealing with his intimates has another aspect. As regards the ordinary necessities of life, (6) his advice was, "Act as you believe (7) these things may best be done." But in the case of those darker problems, the issues of which are incalculable, | ||
(6) Or, "in the sphere of the determined," | (6) Or, "in the sphere of the determined," | ||
- | | + | quorum eventus est necessarius; |
- | department of life," as we might say. See Grote, "H. G." i. ch. | + | |
- | xvi. 500 and passim. | + | xvi. 500 and passim. |
(7) Reading {os nomizoien}, or if {os enomizen}, translate "As to | (7) Reading {os nomizoien}, or if {os enomizen}, translate "As to | ||
- | | + | things with certain results, he advised them to do them in the way |
- | in which he believed they would be done best"; i.e. he did not | + | in which he believed they would be done best"; i.e. he did not |
- | say, " | + | say, " |
- | under the circumstances." | + | under the circumstances." |
Again, Socrates ever lived in the public eye; at early morning he was to be seen betaking himself to one of the promenades, or wrestling-grounds; | Again, Socrates ever lived in the public eye; at early morning he was to be seen betaking himself to one of the promenades, or wrestling-grounds; | ||
(8) Lit. "the sophists." | (8) Lit. "the sophists." | ||
- | | + | 1874. |
(9) Reading {ephu}. Cf. Lucian, " | (9) Reading {ephu}. Cf. Lucian, " | ||
- | | + | this passage apparently; or if {ekhei}, translate "is arranged." |
- | See Grote, "H. G." viii. 573. | + | See Grote, "H. G." viii. 573. |
(10) See " | (10) See " | ||
Line 59: | Line 59: | ||
(12) e.g. Xenophanes and Parmenides, see Grote, " | (12) e.g. Xenophanes and Parmenides, see Grote, " | ||
- | | + | foll. |
(13) e.g. Leucippus and Democritus, ib. 63 foll. | (13) e.g. Leucippus and Democritus, ib. 63 foll. | ||
Line 70: | Line 70: | ||
(16) Or, "was distinctive of the ' | (16) Or, "was distinctive of the ' | ||
- | | + | see below, ii. 2 et passim. |
Now, in so far as the opinions of Socrates were unknown to the world at large, it is not surprising that the court should draw false conclusions respecting them; but that facts patent to all should have been ignored is indeed astonishing. | Now, in so far as the opinions of Socrates were unknown to the world at large, it is not surprising that the court should draw false conclusions respecting them; but that facts patent to all should have been ignored is indeed astonishing. | ||
Line 79: | Line 79: | ||
(18) Lit. " | (18) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | Plat. " |
(19) {ennea} would seem to be a slip of the pen for {okto}, eight. See | (19) {ennea} would seem to be a slip of the pen for {okto}, eight. See | ||
- | | + | " |
I can, therefore, but repeat my former words. It is a marvel to me how the Athenians came to be persuaded that Socrates fell short of sober-mindedness as touching the gods. A man who never ventured one impious word or deed against the gods we worship, but whose whole language concerning them, and his every act, closely coincided, word for word, and deed for deed, with all we deem distinctive of devoutest piety. | I can, therefore, but repeat my former words. It is a marvel to me how the Athenians came to be persuaded that Socrates fell short of sober-mindedness as touching the gods. A man who never ventured one impious word or deed against the gods we worship, but whose whole language concerning them, and his every act, closely coincided, word for word, and deed for deed, with all we deem distinctive of devoutest piety. | ||
Line 99: | Line 99: | ||
(2) {o kategoros} = Polycrates possibly. See M. Schantz, op. cit., | (2) {o kategoros} = Polycrates possibly. See M. Schantz, op. cit., | ||
- | | + | " |
- | p. xxxii. foll. | + | p. xxxii. foll. |
(3) i.e. staking the election of a magistrate on the colour of a bean. | (3) i.e. staking the election of a magistrate on the colour of a bean. | ||
- | | + | See Aristot. "Ath. Pol." viii. 2, and Dr. Sandys ad loc. |
But, the accuser answers, the two men (4) who wrought the greatest evils to the state at any time—to wit, Critias and Alcibiades—were both companions of Socrates—Critias the oligarch, and Alcibiades the democrat. Where would you find a more arrant thief, savage, and murderer (5) than the one? where such a portent of insolence, incontinence, | But, the accuser answers, the two men (4) who wrought the greatest evils to the state at any time—to wit, Critias and Alcibiades—were both companions of Socrates—Critias the oligarch, and Alcibiades the democrat. Where would you find a more arrant thief, savage, and murderer (5) than the one? where such a portent of insolence, incontinence, | ||
Line 110: | Line 110: | ||
(5) Reading {kleptistatos te kai biaiotatos kai phonikotatos}, | (5) Reading {kleptistatos te kai biaiotatos kai phonikotatos}, | ||
- | | + | {pleonektistatos te kai biaiotatis}, |
- | greed and violence as the one, of insolence, etc., as the other?" | + | greed and violence as the one, of insolence, etc., as the other?" |
- | See Grote, "H. G." viii. 337. | + | See Grote, "H. G." viii. 337. |
Never were two more ambitious citizens seen at Athens. Ambition was in their blood. If they were to have their will, all power was to be in their hands; their fame was to eclipse all other. Of Socrates they knew—first that he lived an absolutely independent life on the scantiest means; next that he was self-disciplined to the last degree in respect of pleasures; lastly that he was so formidable in debate that there was no antagonist he could not twist round his little finger. Such being their views, and such the character of the pair, which is the more probable: that they sought the society of Socrates because they felt the fascination of his life, and were attracted by the bearing of the man? or because they thought, if only we are leagued with him we shall become adepts in statecraft and unrivalled in the arts of speech and action? For my part I believe that if the choice from Heaven had been given them to live such a life as they saw Socrates living to its close, or to die, they would both have chosen death. | Never were two more ambitious citizens seen at Athens. Ambition was in their blood. If they were to have their will, all power was to be in their hands; their fame was to eclipse all other. Of Socrates they knew—first that he lived an absolutely independent life on the scantiest means; next that he was self-disciplined to the last degree in respect of pleasures; lastly that he was so formidable in debate that there was no antagonist he could not twist round his little finger. Such being their views, and such the character of the pair, which is the more probable: that they sought the society of Socrates because they felt the fascination of his life, and were attracted by the bearing of the man? or because they thought, if only we are leagued with him we shall become adepts in statecraft and unrivalled in the arts of speech and action? For my part I believe that if the choice from Heaven had been given them to live such a life as they saw Socrates living to its close, or to die, they would both have chosen death. | ||
Line 121: | Line 121: | ||
(6) {sophrosune} = " | (6) {sophrosune} = " | ||
- | | + | iii. 1. |
Perhaps some self-styled philosophers (7) may here answer: "Nay, the man truly just can never become unjust, the temperate man can never become intemperate, | Perhaps some self-styled philosophers (7) may here answer: "Nay, the man truly just can never become unjust, the temperate man can never become intemperate, | ||
(7) In reference to some such tenet as that of Antisthenes ap. Diog. | (7) In reference to some such tenet as that of Antisthenes ap. Diog. | ||
- | | + | Laert. VI. ix. 30, {areskei d' autois kai ten areten didakten |
- | einai, katha phesin ' | + | |
- | uparkhein}. Cf. Plat. " | + | |
To this the poet (8) is a witness, who says: | To this the poet (8) is a witness, who says: | ||
- | | + | "From the noble thou shalt be instructed in nobleness; but, and if |
- | thou minglest with the base thou wilt destroy what wisdom thou | + | thou minglest with the base thou wilt destroy what wisdom thou |
- | hast now"; | + | hast now"; |
And he (9) who says: | And he (9) who says: | ||
- | | + | "But the good man has his hour of baseness as well as his hour of |
- | virtue" | + | virtue" |
to whose testimony I would add my own. For I see that it is impossible to remember a long poem without practice and repetition; so is forgetfulness of the words of instruction engendered in the heart that has ceased to value them. With the words of warning fades the recollection of the very condition of mind in which the soul yearned after holiness; and once forgetting this, what wonder that the man should let slip also the memory of virtue itself! Again I see that a man who falls into habits of drunkenness or plunges headlong into licentious love, loses his old power of practising the right and abstaining from the wrong. Many a man who has found frugality easy whilst passion was cold, no sooner falls in love than he loses the faculty at once, and in his prodigal expenditure of riches he will no longer withhold his hand from gains which in former days were too base to invite his touch. Where then is the difficulty of supposing that a man may be temperate to-day, and to-morrow the reverse; or that he who once has had it in his power to act virtuously may not quite lose that power? (10) To myself, at all events, it seems that all beautiful and noble things are the result of constant practice and training; and pre-eminently the virtue of temperance, seeing that in one and the same bodily frame pleasures are planted and spring up side by side with the soul and keep whispering in her ear, "Have done with self-restraint, | to whose testimony I would add my own. For I see that it is impossible to remember a long poem without practice and repetition; so is forgetfulness of the words of instruction engendered in the heart that has ceased to value them. With the words of warning fades the recollection of the very condition of mind in which the soul yearned after holiness; and once forgetting this, what wonder that the man should let slip also the memory of virtue itself! Again I see that a man who falls into habits of drunkenness or plunges headlong into licentious love, loses his old power of practising the right and abstaining from the wrong. Many a man who has found frugality easy whilst passion was cold, no sooner falls in love than he loses the faculty at once, and in his prodigal expenditure of riches he will no longer withhold his hand from gains which in former days were too base to invite his touch. Where then is the difficulty of supposing that a man may be temperate to-day, and to-morrow the reverse; or that he who once has had it in his power to act virtuously may not quite lose that power? (10) To myself, at all events, it seems that all beautiful and noble things are the result of constant practice and training; and pre-eminently the virtue of temperance, seeing that in one and the same bodily frame pleasures are planted and spring up side by side with the soul and keep whispering in her ear, "Have done with self-restraint, | ||
Line 162: | Line 162: | ||
(15) Or, " | (15) Or, " | ||
- | | + | 110": "But your heart is crammed with arrogancy, spleen, and |
- | pride." | + | |
I go further: if, short of being guilty of any wrong himself, he saw the evil doings of others with approval, reason were he should be held blameworthy. Listen then: Socrates was well aware that Critias was attached to Euthydemus, (16) aware too that he was endeavouring to deal by him after the manner of those wantons whose love is carnal of the body. From this endeavour he tried to deter him, pointing out how illiberal a thing it was, how ill befitting a man of honour to appear as a beggar before him whom he loved, in whose eyes he would fain be precious, ever petitioning for something base to give and base to get. | I go further: if, short of being guilty of any wrong himself, he saw the evil doings of others with approval, reason were he should be held blameworthy. Listen then: Socrates was well aware that Critias was attached to Euthydemus, (16) aware too that he was endeavouring to deal by him after the manner of those wantons whose love is carnal of the body. From this endeavour he tried to deter him, pointing out how illiberal a thing it was, how ill befitting a man of honour to appear as a beggar before him whom he loved, in whose eyes he would fain be precious, ever petitioning for something base to give and base to get. | ||
Line 174: | Line 174: | ||
(17) Lit. " | (17) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | Charicles see Lys. "c. Eratosth." |
(18) See Diog. Laert. II. v. (" | (18) See Diog. Laert. II. v. (" | ||
(19) i.e. {to ton etto logon kreitto poiein}, "of making the worse | (19) i.e. {to ton etto logon kreitto poiein}, "of making the worse | ||
- | | + | appear the better cause." |
(20) See Dio Chrys. " | (20) See Dio Chrys. " | ||
Line 206: | Line 206: | ||
(23) Cf. Plat. " | (23) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | D, 564 A. |
Soc. And am I to hold away from their attendant topics also—the just, the holy, and the like? | Soc. And am I to hold away from their attendant topics also—the just, the holy, and the like? | ||
Line 261: | Line 261: | ||
(24) For these true followers, familiar to us in the pages of Plato, | (24) For these true followers, familiar to us in the pages of Plato, | ||
- | | + | (" |
"But for all that," the accuser insists, " | "But for all that," the accuser insists, " | ||
(25) See " | (25) See " | ||
- | | + | his father Strepsiades through the mire." |
Now what Socrates held was, that if a man may with justice incarcerate another for no better cause than a form of folly or ignorance, this same person could not justly complain if he in his turn were kept in bonds by his superiors in knowledge; and to come to the bottom of such questions, to discover the difference between madness and ignorance was a problem which he was perpetually working at. His opinion came to this: If a madman may, as a matter of expediency to himself and his friends, be kept in prison, surely, as a matter of justice, the man who knows not what he ought to know should be content to sit at the feet of those who know, and be taught. | Now what Socrates held was, that if a man may with justice incarcerate another for no better cause than a form of folly or ignorance, this same person could not justly complain if he in his turn were kept in bonds by his superiors in knowledge; and to come to the bottom of such questions, to discover the difference between madness and ignorance was a problem which he was perpetually working at. His opinion came to this: If a madman may, as a matter of expediency to himself and his friends, be kept in prison, surely, as a matter of justice, the man who knows not what he ought to know should be content to sit at the feet of those who know, and be taught. | ||
Line 275: | Line 275: | ||
(27) Cf. Thuc. ii. 60. Pericles says, "Yet I with whom you are so | (27) Cf. Thuc. ii. 60. Pericles says, "Yet I with whom you are so | ||
- | | + | angry venture to say of myself, that I am as capable as any one of |
- | devising and explaining a sound policy." | + | |
Now I admit the language about fathers and the rest of a man's relations. I can go further, and add some other sayings of his, that "when the soul (which is alone the indwelling centre of intelligence) is gone out of a man, be he our nearest and dearest friend, we carry the body forth and bury it out of sight." | Now I admit the language about fathers and the rest of a man's relations. I can go further, and add some other sayings of his, that "when the soul (which is alone the indwelling centre of intelligence) is gone out of a man, be he our nearest and dearest friend, we carry the body forth and bury it out of sight." | ||
Line 288: | Line 288: | ||
But (pursues the accuser) by carefully culling the most immoral passages of the famous poets, and using them as evidences, he taught his associates to be evildoers and tyrranical: the line of Hesiod (30) for instance— | But (pursues the accuser) by carefully culling the most immoral passages of the famous poets, and using them as evidences, he taught his associates to be evildoers and tyrranical: the line of Hesiod (30) for instance— | ||
- | | + | No work is a disgrace; slackness of work is the disgrace— |
" | " | ||
(30) "Works and Days," 309 {' | (30) "Works and Days," 309 {' | ||
- | | + | " |
Now while Socrates would have entirely admitted the propositions that "it is a blessing and a benefit to a man to be a worker," | Now while Socrates would have entirely admitted the propositions that "it is a blessing and a benefit to a man to be a worker," | ||
- | | + | No work is a disgrace; only idlesse is disgrace. |
But there was a passage from Homer (32) for ever on his lips, as the accuser tells us—the passage which says concerning Odysseus, | But there was a passage from Homer (32) for ever on his lips, as the accuser tells us—the passage which says concerning Odysseus, | ||
- | | + | What prince, or man of name, |
- | He found flight-giv' | + | He found flight-giv' |
- | "Good sir, it fits you not to fly, or fare as one afraid, | + | "Good sir, it fits you not to fly, or fare as one afraid, |
- | You should not only stay yourself, but see the people stayed." | + | You should not only stay yourself, but see the people stayed." |
- | Thus he the best sort us'd; the worst, whose spirits brake out in | + | Thus he the best sort us'd; the worst, whose spirits brake out in |
- | | + | |
- | | + | |
- | | + | power and skill Poor and unworthy, without name in counsel or in |
- | | + | |
(31) See below, III. ix. 9. | (31) See below, III. ix. 9. | ||
Line 317: | Line 317: | ||
(33) Lit. "But whatever man of the people he saw and found him | (33) Lit. "But whatever man of the people he saw and found him | ||
- | | + | shouting." |
The accuser informs us that Socrates interpreted these lines as though the poet approved the giving of blows to commoners and poor folk. Now no such remark was ever made by Socrates; which indeed would have been tantamount to maintaining that he ought to be beaten himself. What he did say was, that those who were useful neither in word nor deed, who were incapable of rendering assistance in time of need to the army or the state or the people itself, be they never so wealthy, ought to be restrained, and especially if to incapacity they added effrontery. | The accuser informs us that Socrates interpreted these lines as though the poet approved the giving of blows to commoners and poor folk. Now no such remark was ever made by Socrates; which indeed would have been tantamount to maintaining that he ought to be beaten himself. What he did say was, that those who were useful neither in word nor deed, who were incapable of rendering assistance in time of need to the army or the state or the people itself, be they never so wealthy, ought to be restrained, and especially if to incapacity they added effrontery. | ||
Line 328: | Line 328: | ||
(36) See " | (36) See " | ||
- | | + | Gymnopaediae, |
To no other conclusion, therefore, can I come but that, being so good a man, Socrates was worthier to have received honour from the state than death. And this I take to be the strictly legal view of the case, for what does the law require? (37) "If a man be proved to be a thief, a filcher of clothes, a cut-purse, a housebreaker, | To no other conclusion, therefore, can I come but that, being so good a man, Socrates was worthier to have received honour from the state than death. And this I take to be the strictly legal view of the case, for what does the law require? (37) "If a man be proved to be a thief, a filcher of clothes, a cut-purse, a housebreaker, | ||
Line 337: | Line 337: | ||
(38) Or, "the noblest and proudest virtue by means of which states and | (38) Or, "the noblest and proudest virtue by means of which states and | ||
- | | + | families are prosperously directed." |
It may serve to illustrate the assertion that he benefited his associates partly by the display of his own virtue and partly by verbal discourse and argument, if I set down my various recollections (1) on these heads. And first with regard to religion and the concerns of heaven. In conduct and language his behaviour conformed to the rule laid down by the Pythia (2) in reply to the question, "How shall we act?" as touching a sacrifice or the worship of ancestors, or any similar point. Her answer is: "Act according to the law and custom of your state, and you will act piously." | It may serve to illustrate the assertion that he benefited his associates partly by the display of his own virtue and partly by verbal discourse and argument, if I set down my various recollections (1) on these heads. And first with regard to religion and the concerns of heaven. In conduct and language his behaviour conformed to the rule laid down by the Pythia (2) in reply to the question, "How shall we act?" as touching a sacrifice or the worship of ancestors, or any similar point. Her answer is: "Act according to the law and custom of your state, and you will act piously." | ||
(1) Hence the title of the work, {' | (1) Hence the title of the work, {' | ||
- | | + | Memoirs, Memorabilia." |
(2) The Pythia at Delphi. | (2) The Pythia at Delphi. | ||
Line 349: | Line 349: | ||
(3) See (Plat.) " | (3) See (Plat.) " | ||
- | | + | " |
If with scant means he offered but small sacrifices he believed that he was in no wise inferior to those who make frequent and large sacrifices from an ampler store. It were ill surely for the very gods themselves, could they take delight in large sacrifices rather than in small, else oftentimes must the offerings of bad men be found acceptable rather than of good; nor from the point of view of men themselves would life be worth living if the offerings of a villain rather than of a righteous man found favour in the sight of Heaven. His belief was that the joy of the gods is greater in proportion to the holiness of the giver, and he was ever an admirer of that line of Hesiod which says, | If with scant means he offered but small sacrifices he believed that he was in no wise inferior to those who make frequent and large sacrifices from an ampler store. It were ill surely for the very gods themselves, could they take delight in large sacrifices rather than in small, else oftentimes must the offerings of bad men be found acceptable rather than of good; nor from the point of view of men themselves would life be worth living if the offerings of a villain rather than of a righteous man found favour in the sight of Heaven. His belief was that the joy of the gods is greater in proportion to the holiness of the giver, and he was ever an admirer of that line of Hesiod which says, | ||
- | | + | According to thine ability do sacrifice to the immortal gods. (4) |
(4) Hesiod, "Works and Days," 336. See " | (4) Hesiod, "Works and Days," 336. See " | ||
Line 364: | Line 364: | ||
(5) {ei me ti daimonion eie}, "save under some divinely-ordained | (5) {ei me ti daimonion eie}, "save under some divinely-ordained | ||
- | | + | calamity." |
(6) See " | (6) See " | ||
(7) Cf. Plut. " | (7) Cf. Plut. " | ||
- | | + | 492, 24; Aelian, "N. A." 8, 9. |
(8) "Half in gibe and half in jest," in ref. to " | (8) "Half in gibe and half in jest," in ref. to " | ||
- | | + | "So she let them in..." |
(9) {upothemosune}, | (9) {upothemosune}, | ||
Line 379: | Line 379: | ||
(10) For Critobulus (the son of Crito) see " | (10) For Critobulus (the son of Crito) see " | ||
- | | + | i. 3 foll. |
(11) See Isocr. " | (11) See Isocr. " | ||
- | | + | Clinias. |
Soc. Tell me, Xenophon, have you not always believed Critobulus to be a man of sound sense, not wild and self-willed? | Soc. Tell me, Xenophon, have you not always believed Critobulus to be a man of sound sense, not wild and self-willed? | ||
Line 405: | Line 405: | ||
(13) Lit. "a half-obol piece." | (13) Lit. "a half-obol piece." | ||
- | | + | A." ix. 39, 1. |
Xen. Yes, but then the creature injects something with its bite. | Xen. Yes, but then the creature injects something with its bite. | ||
Line 412: | Line 412: | ||
(14) L. Dindorf, etc. regard the sentence as a gloss. Cf. " | (14) L. Dindorf, etc. regard the sentence as a gloss. Cf. " | ||
- | | + | 26 ({isos de kai... entimoteron estin}). |
Such (he said), in the affairs of Aphrodite, as in meats and drinks, should be the circumspection of all whose footing is insecure. At least they should confine themselves to such diet as the soul would dispense with, save for some necessity of the body; and which even so ought to set up no disturbance. (15) But for himself, it was clear, he was prepared at all points and invulnerable. He found less difficulty in abstaining from beauty' | Such (he said), in the affairs of Aphrodite, as in meats and drinks, should be the circumspection of all whose footing is insecure. At least they should confine themselves to such diet as the soul would dispense with, save for some necessity of the body; and which even so ought to set up no disturbance. (15) But for himself, it was clear, he was prepared at all points and invulnerable. He found less difficulty in abstaining from beauty' | ||
Line 425: | Line 425: | ||
(1) Al. "If any one believes that Socrates, as represented in certain | (1) Al. "If any one believes that Socrates, as represented in certain | ||
- | | + | dialogues (e.g. of Plato, Antisthenes, |
- | character, was an adept ({protrepsasthai}) in the art of | + | |
- | stimulating people to virtue negatively but scarcely the man to | + | |
- | guide ({proagein}) his hearers on the true path himself." | + | guide ({proagein}) his hearers on the true path himself." |
- | (Plat.) " | + | |
- | " | + | " |
- | foll.; Cf. below, IV. iii. 2. | + | |
I will first state what I once heard fall from his lips in a discussion with Aristodemus, | I will first state what I once heard fall from his lips in a discussion with Aristodemus, | ||
(2) See Plat. " | (2) See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | any shoes, Aristodemus, |
(3) Or, "the divine element." | (3) Or, "the divine element." | ||
Line 461: | Line 461: | ||
(5) Cf. Aristot. "de Part. Animal." | (5) Cf. Aristot. "de Part. Animal." | ||
- | | + | see IV. iii. 2 foll. |
(6) "Like a sieve" or " | (6) "Like a sieve" or " | ||
Line 484: | Line 484: | ||
(10) Cf. Plat. " | (10) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | soul? Pro. Clearly. Soc. And whence comes that soul, my dear |
- | Protarchus, unless the body of the universe, which contains | + | |
- | elements similar to our bodies but finer, has also a soul? Can | + | |
- | there be any other source?" | + | there be any other source?" |
- | 11. | + | 11. |
Ar. It may be, for my eyes fail to see the master agents of these, as one sees the fabricators of things produced on earth. | Ar. It may be, for my eyes fail to see the master agents of these, as one sees the fabricators of things produced on earth. | ||
Line 527: | Line 527: | ||
(3) Or, "how should the master himself beware lest he fall into that | (3) Or, "how should the master himself beware lest he fall into that | ||
- | | + | category." |
(4) {krepida}. See Pind. " | (4) {krepida}. See Pind. " | ||
(5) See below, III. x. 9, xi. 5; IV. ii. 9, iv. 8; " | (5) See below, III. x. 9, xi. 5; IV. ii. 9, iv. 8; " | ||
- | | + | " |
- | Lakin." | + | |
Well-tempered words: yet his self-restraint shone forth even more in his acts than in his language. Not only was he master over the pleasures which flow from the body, but of those also which are fed by riches, his belief being that he who receives money from this or that chance donor sets up over himself a master, and binds himself to an abominable slavery. | Well-tempered words: yet his self-restraint shone forth even more in his acts than in his language. Not only was he master over the pleasures which flow from the body, but of those also which are fed by riches, his belief being that he who receives money from this or that chance donor sets up over himself a master, and binds himself to an abominable slavery. | ||
Line 540: | Line 540: | ||
(1) {o teratoskopos}, | (1) {o teratoskopos}, | ||
- | | + | ap. Diog. Laert. II. v. 25. See Cobet, "Pros. Xen." |
Antiphon. Why, Socrates, I always thought it was expected of students of philosophy to grow in happiness daily; but you seem to have reaped other fruits from your philosophy. At any rate, you exist, I do not say live, in a style such as no slave serving under a master would put up with. Your meat and your drink are of the cheapest sort, and as to clothes, you cling to one wretched cloak which serves you for summer and winter alike; and so you go the whole year round, without shoes to your feet or a shirt to your back. Then again, you are not for taking or making money, the mere seeking of which is a pleasure, even as the possession of it adds to the sweetness and independence of existence. I do not know whether you follow the common rule of teachers, who try to fashion their pupils in imitation of themselves, (2) and propose to mould the characters of your companions; but if you do you ought to dub yourself professor of the art of wretchedness. (3) | Antiphon. Why, Socrates, I always thought it was expected of students of philosophy to grow in happiness daily; but you seem to have reaped other fruits from your philosophy. At any rate, you exist, I do not say live, in a style such as no slave serving under a master would put up with. Your meat and your drink are of the cheapest sort, and as to clothes, you cling to one wretched cloak which serves you for summer and winter alike; and so you go the whole year round, without shoes to your feet or a shirt to your back. Then again, you are not for taking or making money, the mere seeking of which is a pleasure, even as the possession of it adds to the sweetness and independence of existence. I do not know whether you follow the common rule of teachers, who try to fashion their pupils in imitation of themselves, (2) and propose to mould the characters of your companions; but if you do you ought to dub yourself professor of the art of wretchedness. (3) | ||
Line 567: | Line 567: | ||
(8) {sophistas}. See Grote, "H. G." viii. 482 foll.; " | (8) {sophistas}. See Grote, "H. G." viii. 482 foll.; " | ||
- | | + | foll. |
(9) Cf. Plat. " | (9) Cf. Plat. " | ||
Line 586: | Line 586: | ||
(3) Or, " | (3) Or, " | ||
- | | + | Schneid. cf. Demosth. 565. 6. |
(4) Here follows the sentence | (4) Here follows the sentence | ||
- | | + | alazoneuesthai apotrepein tous sunontas toiade dialegomenos}), |
- | which, for the sake of convenience, | + | |
- | sentence of Bk. II. ch. i. ({edokei de moi... ponou.}) I | + | |
- | believe that the commentators are right in bracketing both one and | + | |
- | the other as editorial interpolations. | + | the other as editorial interpolations. |
===== BOOK II ===== | ===== BOOK II ===== | ||
Line 601: | Line 601: | ||
(1) This sentence in the Greek concludes Bk. I. There is something | (1) This sentence in the Greek concludes Bk. I. There is something | ||
- | | + | wrong or very awkward in the text here. |
(2) Cf. Grote, " | (2) Cf. Grote, " | ||
Line 658: | Line 658: | ||
(8) Or, "he knows the risks he runs of suffering those penalties with | (8) Or, "he knows the risks he runs of suffering those penalties with | ||
- | | + | which the law threatens his crime should he fall into the snare, |
- | and being caught, be mutilated." | + | and being caught, be mutilated." |
(9) Or, "leap headlong into the jaws of danger." | (9) Or, "leap headlong into the jaws of danger." | ||
Line 696: | Line 696: | ||
(14) Or, "the outer world, the non-Hellenic races and nationalities of | (14) Or, "the outer world, the non-Hellenic races and nationalities of | ||
- | | + | which we have any knowledge." |
(15) Lit. " | (15) Lit. " | ||
Line 703: | Line 703: | ||
(16) Or, " | (16) Or, " | ||
- | | + | slightest intention of placing myself." |
- | i. 306. | + | i. 306. |
Soc. True, if only your path could avoid human beings, as it avoids rule and slavery, there would be something in what you say. But being placed as you are amidst human beings, if you purpose neither to rule nor to be ruled, and do not mean to dance attendance, if you can help it, on those who rule, you must surely see that the stronger have an art to seat the weaker on the stool of repentance (17) both in public and in private, and to treat them as slaves. I daresay you have not failed to note this common case: a set of people has sown and planted, whereupon in comes another set and cuts their corn and fells their fruit-trees, | Soc. True, if only your path could avoid human beings, as it avoids rule and slavery, there would be something in what you say. But being placed as you are amidst human beings, if you purpose neither to rule nor to be ruled, and do not mean to dance attendance, if you can help it, on those who rule, you must surely see that the stronger have an art to seat the weaker on the stool of repentance (17) both in public and in private, and to treat them as slaves. I daresay you have not failed to note this common case: a set of people has sown and planted, whereupon in comes another set and cuts their corn and fells their fruit-trees, | ||
(17) See " | (17) See " | ||
- | | + | Dindorf ad loc. |
Ar. Yes, but I must tell you I have a simple remedy against all such misadventures. I do not confine myself to any single civil community. I roam the wide world a foreigner. | Ar. Yes, but I must tell you I have a simple remedy against all such misadventures. I do not confine myself to any single civil community. I roam the wide world a foreigner. | ||
Line 718: | Line 718: | ||
(19) For these mythical highway robbers, see Diod. iv. 59; and for | (19) For these mythical highway robbers, see Diod. iv. 59; and for | ||
- | | + | Sciron in particular, Plut. " |
(20) Or, "where so many suffer wrong." | (20) Or, "where so many suffer wrong." | ||
Line 725: | Line 725: | ||
(21) Cf. below, IV. ii. 11; Plat. " | (21) Cf. below, IV. ii. 11; Plat. " | ||
- | | + | K. Joel, op. cit. p. 387 foll. " |
- | (" | + | |
(22) Cf. " | (22) Cf. " | ||
Line 732: | Line 732: | ||
Soc. What, Aristippus, does it not seem to you that, as regards such matters, there is all the difference between voluntary and involuntary suffering, in that he who starves of his own accord can eat when he chooses, and he who thirsts of his own free will can drink, and so for the rest; but he who suffers in these ways perforce cannot desist from the suffering when the humour takes him? Again, he who suffers hardship voluntarily, | Soc. What, Aristippus, does it not seem to you that, as regards such matters, there is all the difference between voluntary and involuntary suffering, in that he who starves of his own accord can eat when he chooses, and he who thirsts of his own free will can drink, and so for the rest; but he who suffers in these ways perforce cannot desist from the suffering when the humour takes him? Again, he who suffers hardship voluntarily, | ||
- | | + | Wickedness may a man take wholesale with ease, smooth is the way |
- | and her dwelling-place is very nigh; but in front of virtue the | + | and her dwelling-place is very nigh; but in front of virtue the |
- | immortal gods have placed toil and sweat, long is the path and | + | immortal gods have placed toil and sweat, long is the path and |
- | steep that leads to her, and rugged at the first, but when the | + | steep that leads to her, and rugged at the first, but when the |
- | summit of the pass is reached, then for all its roughness the path | + | summit of the pass is reached, then for all its roughness the path |
- | grows easy. | + | grows easy. |
(23) Cf. above, I. vi. 8. | (23) Cf. above, I. vi. 8. | ||
(24) Or, "in admiration of themselves, the praise and envy of the | (24) Or, "in admiration of themselves, the praise and envy of the | ||
- | | + | world at large." |
(25) See Hippocrates, | (25) See Hippocrates, | ||
(26) Hesiod, "Works and Days," 285. See Plat. " | (26) Hesiod, "Works and Days," 285. See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | ii. 364 D; " |
And Ephicharmus (27) bears his testimony when he says: | And Ephicharmus (27) bears his testimony when he says: | ||
- | | + | The gods sell us all good things in return for our labours. |
(27) Epicharmus of Cos, the chief comic poet among the Dorians, fl. | (27) Epicharmus of Cos, the chief comic poet among the Dorians, fl. | ||
- | | + | 500 B.C. Cf. Plat. " |
- | " | + | " |
And again in another passage he exclaims: | And again in another passage he exclaims: | ||
- | | + | Set not thine heart on soft things, thou knave, lest thou light |
- | upon the hard. | + | upon the hard. |
And that wise man Prodicus (28) delivers himself in a like strain concerning virtue in that composition of his about Heracles, which crowds have listened to. (29) This, as far as I can recollect it, is the substance at least of what he says: | And that wise man Prodicus (28) delivers himself in a like strain concerning virtue in that composition of his about Heracles, which crowds have listened to. (29) This, as far as I can recollect it, is the substance at least of what he says: | ||
(28) Prodicus of Ceos. See Plat. " | (28) Prodicus of Ceos. See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | "Vit. Soph." i. 12. |
(29) Or, "which he is fond of reciting as a specimen of style." | (29) Or, "which he is fond of reciting as a specimen of style." | ||
- | | + | title of the {epideixis} was {' |
- | {Prodikos}. | + | |
"When Heracles was emerging from boyhood into the bloom of youth, having reached that season in which the young man, now standing upon the verge of independence, | "When Heracles was emerging from boyhood into the bloom of youth, having reached that season in which the young man, now standing upon the verge of independence, | ||
(30) Reading {eleutherion phusei,...} or if {eleutherion, | (30) Reading {eleutherion phusei,...} or if {eleutherion, | ||
- | | + | phusei...} translate " |
"Now when these two had drawn near to Heracles, she who was first named advanced at an even pace (31) towards him, but the other, in her eagerness to outstrip her, ran forward to the youth, exclaiming, 'I see you, Heracles, in doubt and difficulty what path of life to choose; make me your friend, and I will lead you to the pleasantest road and easiest. This I promise you: you shall taste all of life's sweets and escape all bitters. In the first place, you shall not trouble your brain with war or business; other topics shall engage your mind; (32) your only speculation, | "Now when these two had drawn near to Heracles, she who was first named advanced at an even pace (31) towards him, but the other, in her eagerness to outstrip her, ran forward to the youth, exclaiming, 'I see you, Heracles, in doubt and difficulty what path of life to choose; make me your friend, and I will lead you to the pleasantest road and easiest. This I promise you: you shall taste all of life's sweets and escape all bitters. In the first place, you shall not trouble your brain with war or business; other topics shall engage your mind; (32) your only speculation, | ||
Line 781: | Line 781: | ||
(32) Reading {diese}, or {dioisei}, "you shall continue speculating | (32) Reading {diese}, or {dioisei}, "you shall continue speculating | ||
- | | + | solely." |
(33) It will be recollected that Prodicus prided himself on {orthotes | (33) It will be recollected that Prodicus prided himself on {orthotes | ||
- | | + | onomaton}. Possibly Xenophon is imitating (caricaturing? |
- | style. {terphtheies, | + | |
" | " | ||
(34) So the vulg. {upokorizomenoi} is interpreted. Cobet (" | (34) So the vulg. {upokorizomenoi} is interpreted. Cobet (" | ||
- | | + | p. 36) suggests {upoknizomenoi} = " |
- | pungantur." | + | |
"But just then the other of those fair women approached and spoke: ' | "But just then the other of those fair women approached and spoke: ' | ||
Line 806: | Line 806: | ||
(38) Reading {ois prosekei}, or if {proseko}, translate "to whom I am | (38) Reading {ois prosekei}, or if {proseko}, translate "to whom I am | ||
- | | + | attached." |
(39) Cf. " | (39) Cf. " | ||
(40) Or, "so true is it, a branch is left them; undying honour to | (40) Or, "so true is it, a branch is left them; undying honour to | ||
- | | + | their name!" |
This, Aristippus, in rough sketch is the theme which Prodicus pursues (41) in his " | This, Aristippus, in rough sketch is the theme which Prodicus pursues (41) in his " | ||
(41) Reading {diokei}, al. {diokei} = "so Prodicus arranged the parts | (41) Reading {diokei}, al. {diokei} = "so Prodicus arranged the parts | ||
- | | + | of his discourse." |
At another time, he had noticed the angry temper shown by Lamprocles, the elder of his sons, towards their mother, and thus addressed himself to the lad. | At another time, he had noticed the angry temper shown by Lamprocles, the elder of his sons, towards their mother, and thus addressed himself to the lad. | ||
Line 851: | Line 851: | ||
(2) "For the procreation of children." | (2) "For the procreation of children." | ||
- | | + | Lac." i. |
(3) Lit. "to leave nought lacking." | (3) Lit. "to leave nought lacking." | ||
Line 906: | Line 906: | ||
(1) Cf. " | (1) Cf. " | ||
- | | + | ducats, and my daughter!" |
(2) Or, "a yearning after their foster-brothers manifests itself in | (2) Or, "a yearning after their foster-brothers manifests itself in | ||
- | | + | animals." |
- | discussion. | + | |
(3) Lit. "and is less liable to hostility." | (3) Lit. "and is less liable to hostility." | ||
Line 935: | Line 935: | ||
(4) "When he next does sacrifice"; | (4) "When he next does sacrifice"; | ||
- | | + | " |
Chaer. No doubt I should set him a good example by inviting him myself on a like occasion. | Chaer. No doubt I should set him a good example by inviting him myself on a like occasion. | ||
Line 950: | Line 950: | ||
(5) Reading {pros ten philian}, or if {phusin}, transl. " | (5) Reading {pros ten philian}, or if {phusin}, transl. " | ||
- | | + | disposition." |
Chaer. A startling announcement, | Chaer. A startling announcement, | ||
Line 975: | Line 975: | ||
(11) Lit. "reach at one stretch two objects, even over that small | (11) Lit. "reach at one stretch two objects, even over that small | ||
- | | + | distance." |
(12) " | (12) " | ||
Line 988: | Line 988: | ||
(2) Or, "Nor had he failed to observe another striking contrast." | (2) Or, "Nor had he failed to observe another striking contrast." | ||
- | | + | Cic. " |
(3) i.e. "like a chess-player recalling a move." | (3) i.e. "like a chess-player recalling a move." | ||
Line 995: | Line 995: | ||
(4) "A vessel fit for all work indeed is this friend." | (4) "A vessel fit for all work indeed is this friend." | ||
- | | + | 936, {pagkhreston aggos estai}, like the " |
(5) Or, "by dint of his diplomacy." | (5) Or, "by dint of his diplomacy." | ||
Line 1002: | Line 1002: | ||
(1) Antisthenes, | (1) Antisthenes, | ||
- | | + | 17; "ad Att." xii. 38. See below, III. iii. 17; " |
- | Diog. Laert. II. v.; VI. i. | + | Diog. Laert. II. v.; VI. i. |
Soc. What say you, Antisthenes? | Soc. What say you, Antisthenes? | ||
Line 1010: | Line 1010: | ||
(3) For Nicias see Thuc. vii. 77 foll.; " | (3) For Nicias see Thuc. vii. 77 foll.; " | ||
- | | + | " |
Not a doubt of it (replied Antisthenes). At any rate, I know that I would rather have such a one as my friend than be paid two minae, and there is such another whose worth I would not estimate at half a mina, and a third with whom I would not part for ten, and then again a fourth whose friendship would be cheap if it cost me all the wealth and pains in the world to purchase it. | Not a doubt of it (replied Antisthenes). At any rate, I know that I would rather have such a one as my friend than be paid two minae, and there is such another whose worth I would not estimate at half a mina, and a third with whom I would not part for ten, and then again a fourth whose friendship would be cheap if it cost me all the wealth and pains in the world to purchase it. | ||
Line 1019: | Line 1019: | ||
(1) Or, " | (1) Or, " | ||
- | | + | worth having must be of a particular type, I cannot but think that |
- | the following remarks would prove instructive." | + | the following remarks would prove instructive." |
Tell me (said Socrates, addressing Critobulus), | Tell me (said Socrates, addressing Critobulus), | ||
Line 1094: | Line 1094: | ||
Soc. You need not go farther than Homer to learn that which the Sirens sang to Odysseus, (9) the first words of which run, I think, as follows: | Soc. You need not go farther than Homer to learn that which the Sirens sang to Odysseus, (9) the first words of which run, I think, as follows: | ||
- | | + | Hither, come hither, thou famous man, Odysseus, great glory of the |
- | Achaeans! | + | Achaeans! |
(9) " | (9) " | ||
Line 1116: | Line 1116: | ||
(12) See Herod. vii. 143, "the wooden wall"; Thuc. i. 93, "' | (12) See Herod. vii. 143, "the wooden wall"; Thuc. i. 93, "' | ||
- | | + | of Athens." |
Cri. You would imply, Socrates, would you not, that if we want to win the love of any good man we need to be good ourselves in speech and action? | Cri. You would imply, Socrates, would you not, that if we want to win the love of any good man we need to be good ourselves in speech and action? | ||
Line 1125: | Line 1125: | ||
(13) Or, "Why, yes, when I see some base orator fast friends with a | (13) Or, "Why, yes, when I see some base orator fast friends with a | ||
- | | + | great leader of the people; or, again, some fellow incapable of |
- | generalship a comrade to the greatest captains of his age." | + | |
Soc. But in reference to the point we were discussing, may I ask whether you know of any one who can attach a useful friend to himself without being of use in return? (14) Can service ally in friendship with disservice? | Soc. But in reference to the point we were discussing, may I ask whether you know of any one who can attach a useful friend to himself without being of use in return? (14) Can service ally in friendship with disservice? | ||
(14) Add, "Can service ally in friendship with disservice? Must there | (14) Add, "Can service ally in friendship with disservice? Must there | ||
- | | + | not be a reciprocity of service to make friendship lasting?" |
Cri. In good sooth no. But now, granted it is impossible for a base man to be friends with the beautiful and noble, (14) I am concerned at once to discover if one who is himself of a beautiful and noble character can, with a wave of the hand, as it were, attach himself in friendship to every other beautiful and noble nature. | Cri. In good sooth no. But now, granted it is impossible for a base man to be friends with the beautiful and noble, (14) I am concerned at once to discover if one who is himself of a beautiful and noble character can, with a wave of the hand, as it were, attach himself in friendship to every other beautiful and noble nature. | ||
Line 1162: | Line 1162: | ||
(22) Or, "the best, though few, are better worth your benefiting than | (22) Or, "the best, though few, are better worth your benefiting than | ||
- | | + | the many base." |
So keep a good heart, Critobulus; only try to become good yourself, and when you have attained, set to your hand to capture the beautiful and good. Perhaps I may be able to give you some help in this quest, being myself an adept in Love's lore. (23) No matter who it is for whom my heart is aflame; in an instant my whole soul is eager to leap forth. With vehemence I speed to the mark. I, who love, demand to be loved again; this desire in me must be met by counter desire in him; this thirst for his society by thirst reciprocal for mine. And these will be your needs also, I foresee, whenever you are seized with longing to contract a friendship. Do not hide from me, therefore, whom you would choose as a friend, since, owing to the pains I take to please him who pleases me, I am not altogether unversed, I fancy, in the art of catching men. (24) | So keep a good heart, Critobulus; only try to become good yourself, and when you have attained, set to your hand to capture the beautiful and good. Perhaps I may be able to give you some help in this quest, being myself an adept in Love's lore. (23) No matter who it is for whom my heart is aflame; in an instant my whole soul is eager to leap forth. With vehemence I speed to the mark. I, who love, demand to be loved again; this desire in me must be met by counter desire in him; this thirst for his society by thirst reciprocal for mine. And these will be your needs also, I foresee, whenever you are seized with longing to contract a friendship. Do not hide from me, therefore, whom you would choose as a friend, since, owing to the pains I take to please him who pleases me, I am not altogether unversed, I fancy, in the art of catching men. (24) | ||
(23) "An authority in matters of love." Cf. Plat. " | (23) "An authority in matters of love." Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | " |
(24) See below, III. xi. 7; cf. Plat. " | (24) See below, III. xi. 7; cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | {alieis anthropon}. |
Critobulus replied: Why, these are the very lessons of instruction, | Critobulus replied: Why, these are the very lessons of instruction, | ||
Line 1201: | Line 1201: | ||
(25) Aspasia, daughter of Axiochus, of Miletus. See " | (25) Aspasia, daughter of Axiochus, of Miletus. See " | ||
- | | + | Plat. " |
- | xxxi. 51. See Grote, "H. G." vi. 132 foll.; Cobet, "Pros. Xen." | + | xxxi. 51. See Grote, "H. G." vi. 132 foll.; Cobet, "Pros. Xen." |
(26) Reading {ouk ethelein epainein}, or if {ouk ophelein epainousas} | (26) Reading {ouk ethelein epainein}, or if {ouk ophelein epainousas} | ||
- | | + | with Kuhner transl. "Good matchmakers, |
- | consult truth when reporting favourably of any one: then indeed | + | |
- | they are terribly clever at bringing people together: whereas | + | they are terribly clever at bringing people together: whereas |
- | false flatterers do no good; their dupes," | + | false flatterers do no good; their dupes," |
Cri. Really, Socrates, you are a wonderfully good friend to me—in so far as I have any merit which will entitle me to win a friend, you will lend me a helping hand, it seems; otherwise you would rather not forge any petty fiction for my benefit. | Cri. Really, Socrates, you are a wonderfully good friend to me—in so far as I have any merit which will entitle me to win a friend, you will lend me a helping hand, it seems; otherwise you would rather not forge any petty fiction for my benefit. | ||
Line 1231: | Line 1231: | ||
(3) Lit. "with your large family to feed." L. Dindorf would like to | (3) Lit. "with your large family to feed." L. Dindorf would like to | ||
- | | + | read {su de oligous}, "you with your small family." |
Ar. Why, bless your soul, do you not see he has only slaves and I have free-born souls to feed? | Ar. Why, bless your soul, do you not see he has only slaves and I have free-born souls to feed? | ||
Line 1258: | Line 1258: | ||
(4) For these articles of dress see Becker' | (4) For these articles of dress see Becker' | ||
- | | + | Sc. xi. " |
Ar. Yes, they are all highly useful commodities. | Ar. Yes, they are all highly useful commodities. | ||
Line 1271: | Line 1271: | ||
(6) Lit. "state liturgies," | (6) Lit. "state liturgies," | ||
- | | + | For these see Gow, " |
(7) Cf. Arist. " | (7) Cf. Arist. " | ||
- | | + | khlaniskia}. See Dr. Merry' |
Ar. Bless me, yes! They have got a set of barbarian fellows, whom they purchase and keep, to manufacture by forced labour whatever takes their fancy. My kinswomen, I need not tell you, are free-born ladies. | Ar. Bless me, yes! They have got a set of barbarian fellows, whom they purchase and keep, to manufacture by forced labour whatever takes their fancy. My kinswomen, I need not tell you, are free-born ladies. | ||
Line 1293: | Line 1293: | ||
(10) See Joseph Jacobs, "The Fables of Aesop," | (10) See Joseph Jacobs, "The Fables of Aesop," | ||
- | | + | for "a complete list of the Fables given in Greek literature up to |
- | the fall of Greek independence." | + | the fall of Greek independence." |
- | foll.; Archilochus, | + | |
- | " | + | " |
At another time chancing upon an old friend whom he had not seen for a long while, he greeted him thus. | At another time chancing upon an old friend whom he had not seen for a long while, he greeted him thus. | ||
Line 1305: | Line 1305: | ||
(1) Lit. "from here." The conversation perhaps takes place in Piraeus | (1) Lit. "from here." The conversation perhaps takes place in Piraeus | ||
- | | + | 404 B.C. |
(2) Or, " | (2) Or, " | ||
Line 1330: | Line 1330: | ||
(4) Or, "study to make it your finest work, the expression of a real | (4) Or, "study to make it your finest work, the expression of a real | ||
- | | + | enthusiasm." |
At another time, as I am aware, he had heard a remark made by Crito (1) that life at Athens was no easy matter for a man who wished to mind his own affairs. | At another time, as I am aware, he had heard a remark made by Crito (1) that life at Athens was no easy matter for a man who wished to mind his own affairs. | ||
(1) Crito. See above, I. ii. 48; Cobet, "P. X."; cf. Plat. " | (1) Crito. See above, I. ii. 48; Cobet, "P. X."; cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | viii. 549 C. |
As, for instance, at this moment (Crito proceeded) there are a set of fellows threatening me with lawsuits, not because they have any misdemeanour to allege against me, but simply under the conviction that I will sooner pay a sum of money than be troubled further. | As, for instance, at this moment (Crito proceeded) there are a set of fellows threatening me with lawsuits, not because they have any misdemeanour to allege against me, but simply under the conviction that I will sooner pay a sum of money than be troubled further. | ||
Line 1352: | Line 1352: | ||
(2) Archedemus, possibly the demagogue, " | (2) Archedemus, possibly the demagogue, " | ||
- | | + | "P. X.," but see Grote, "H. G." viii. 245. |
(3) Lit. "very capable of speech and action" | (3) Lit. "very capable of speech and action" | ||
- | | + | formula for the well-trained Athenian who can speak fluently and |
- | reason clearly, and act energetically and opportunely. | + | |
(4) Reading {kai euphuesteros on} (or {e os})... {apo sukophanton} | (4) Reading {kai euphuesteros on} (or {e os})... {apo sukophanton} | ||
- | (or {sukophantion}), | + | (or {sukophantion}), |
- | MSS. give {kai ephe raston einai}—" | + | MSS. give {kai ephe raston einai}—" |
- | "than recovering from sycophants." | + | " |
(5) For this formula cf. " | (5) For this formula cf. " | ||
Line 1368: | Line 1368: | ||
(7) Lit. the {kaloi kagathoi}, which like {khrestous} and {ponerous} | (7) Lit. the {kaloi kagathoi}, which like {khrestous} and {ponerous} | ||
- | | + | has a political as well as an ethical meaning. |
(8) Lit. "must associate with these (the {ponerois}) instead of those | (8) Lit. "must associate with these (the {ponerois}) instead of those | ||
- | | + | (the {kalois te kagathois}). |
The net result of the whole proceedings was that Archedemus was now Crito' | The net result of the whole proceedings was that Archedemus was now Crito' | ||
Line 1404: | Line 1404: | ||
(1) {ton kalon} = everything which the {kalos te kagathos} should aim | (1) {ton kalon} = everything which the {kalos te kagathos} should aim | ||
- | | + | at, but especially the honourable offices of state such as the |
- | Archonship, Strategia, Hipparchia, etc. See Plat. " | + | |
(2) Dionysodorus of Chios, presumably. See Plat. " | (2) Dionysodorus of Chios, presumably. See Plat. " | ||
Line 1432: | Line 1432: | ||
(9) A strategos. For the duties and spheres of action of this officer, | (9) A strategos. For the duties and spheres of action of this officer, | ||
- | | + | see Gow, op. cit. xiv. 58. |
(10) "As in the building of a house." | (10) "As in the building of a house." | ||
- | | + | 14. |
The simile is very apt, Socrates (11) (replied the youth), for in battle, too, the rule is to draw up the best men in front and rear, with those of inferior quality between, where they may be led on by the former and pushed on by the hinder. | The simile is very apt, Socrates (11) (replied the youth), for in battle, too, the rule is to draw up the best men in front and rear, with those of inferior quality between, where they may be led on by the former and pushed on by the hinder. | ||
Line 1460: | Line 1460: | ||
(13) Cf. Shakesp. " | (13) Cf. Shakesp. " | ||
- | | + | mouth." |
Soc. But tell me, did he teach you how to draw up troops in general, or specifically where and how to apply each particular kind of tactical arrangement? | Soc. But tell me, did he teach you how to draw up troops in general, or specifically where and how to apply each particular kind of tactical arrangement? | ||
Line 1476: | Line 1476: | ||
Soc. Why did Homer, think you, designate Agamemnon " | Soc. Why did Homer, think you, designate Agamemnon " | ||
- | | + | He is both a good king and a warrior bold? (2) |
Did he mean, perhaps, to imply that he would be a ' | Did he mean, perhaps, to imply that he would be a ' | ||
Line 1483: | Line 1483: | ||
(2) " | (2) " | ||
- | | + | the Great' |
(3) Of, "that life may reach some flower of happiness." | (3) Of, "that life may reach some flower of happiness." | ||
Line 1500: | Line 1500: | ||
(3) Lit. " | (3) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | tr.) |
Hipp. You are right. | Hipp. You are right. | ||
Line 1575: | Line 1575: | ||
(9) Or, " | (9) Or, " | ||
- | | + | rationally." |
- | " | + | " |
Soc. Were you under the impression that the commandant was not to open his mouth? Did it never occur to you that all the noblest things which custom (10) compels us to learn, and to which indeed we owe our knowledge of life, have all been learned by means of speech (11) and reason; and if there be any other noble learning which a man may learn, it is this same reason whereby he learns it; and the best teachers are those who have the freest command of thought and language, and those that have the best knowledge of the most serious things are the most brilliant masters of disputation. Again, have you not observed that whenever this city of ours fits out one of her choruses—such as that, for instance, which is sent to Delos (12)—there is nothing elsewhere from any quarter of the world which can compete with it; nor will you find in any other state collected so fair a flower of manhood as in Athens? (13) | Soc. Were you under the impression that the commandant was not to open his mouth? Did it never occur to you that all the noblest things which custom (10) compels us to learn, and to which indeed we owe our knowledge of life, have all been learned by means of speech (11) and reason; and if there be any other noble learning which a man may learn, it is this same reason whereby he learns it; and the best teachers are those who have the freest command of thought and language, and those that have the best knowledge of the most serious things are the most brilliant masters of disputation. Again, have you not observed that whenever this city of ours fits out one of her choruses—such as that, for instance, which is sent to Delos (12)—there is nothing elsewhere from any quarter of the world which can compete with it; nor will you find in any other state collected so fair a flower of manhood as in Athens? (13) | ||
(10) Cf Arist. " | (10) Cf Arist. " | ||
- | | + | monon}. |
(11) {dia logou}. | (11) {dia logou}. | ||
Line 1604: | Line 1604: | ||
(15) Or, "to conduct which will not certainly fail of profit to | (15) Or, "to conduct which will not certainly fail of profit to | ||
- | | + | yourself or through you to..." |
Yes, in good sooth, I will try (he answered). | Yes, in good sooth, I will try (he answered). | ||
Line 1611: | Line 1611: | ||
(1) Cf. "Pol. Ath." i. 3; Aristot. "Ath. Pol." 44. 4; and Dr. Sandys' | (1) Cf. "Pol. Ath." i. 3; Aristot. "Ath. Pol." 44. 4; and Dr. Sandys' | ||
- | | + | note ad loc. p. 165 of his edition. |
And he: Is it not just like them, these citizens of Athens—just like them, I say—to go and elect, not me, who ever since my name first appeared on the muster-roll have literally worn myself out with military service—now as a captain, now as a colonel—and have received all these wounds from the enemy, look you! (at the same time, and suiting the action to the word, he bared his arms and proceeded to show the scars of ancient wounds)—they elect not me (he went on), but, if you please, Antisthenes! who never served as a hoplite (2) in his life nor in the cavalry ever made a brilliant stroke, that I ever heard tell of; no! in fact, he has got no science at all, I take it, except to amass stores of wealth. | And he: Is it not just like them, these citizens of Athens—just like them, I say—to go and elect, not me, who ever since my name first appeared on the muster-roll have literally worn myself out with military service—now as a captain, now as a colonel—and have received all these wounds from the enemy, look you! (at the same time, and suiting the action to the word, he bared his arms and proceeded to show the scars of ancient wounds)—they elect not me (he went on), but, if you please, Antisthenes! who never served as a hoplite (2) in his life nor in the cavalry ever made a brilliant stroke, that I ever heard tell of; no! in fact, he has got no science at all, I take it, except to amass stores of wealth. | ||
Line 1626: | Line 1626: | ||
(4) Choir-master, | (4) Choir-master, | ||
- | | + | provide and preside over a chorus to sing, dance, or play at any |
- | of the public festivals, defraying the cost as a state service of | + | of the public festivals, defraying the cost as a state service of |
- | {leitourgia}. See "Pol. Ath." iii. 4; " | + | |
- | " | + | Pol. Ath." 28. 3. |
Nic. Bless me! yes; but there is a wide difference between standing at the head of a band of singers and dancers and a troop of soldiers. | Nic. Bless me! yes; but there is a wide difference between standing at the head of a band of singers and dancers and a troop of soldiers. | ||
Line 1640: | Line 1640: | ||
(5) See Dem. " | (5) See Dem. " | ||
- | | + | members as were qualified to undertake the burden. |
Nic. Do you really mean, Socrates, that it is the function of the same man to provide efficient choruses and to act as commander-in-chief? | Nic. Do you really mean, Socrates, that it is the function of the same man to provide efficient choruses and to act as commander-in-chief? | ||
Line 1677: | Line 1677: | ||
(9) In reference to the necessity of building up a family connection | (9) In reference to the necessity of building up a family connection | ||
- | | + | or political alliances cf. Arist. " |
Nic. Without a doubt. | Nic. Without a doubt. | ||
Line 1702: | Line 1702: | ||
(11) L. Dindorf, "Index Graec." | (11) L. Dindorf, "Index Graec." | ||
- | | + | "sed verae numerosque modosque ediscere vitae," |
- | life," Conington. | + | |
A conversation held with Pericles the son of the great statesman may here be introduced. (1) Socrates began: | A conversation held with Pericles the son of the great statesman may here be introduced. (1) Socrates began: | ||
(1) Or, "On one occasion Pericles was the person addressed in | (1) Or, "On one occasion Pericles was the person addressed in | ||
- | | + | conversation." |
- | " | + | " |
I am looking forward, I must tell you, Pericles, to a great improvement in our military affairs when you are minister of war. (2) The prestige of Athens, I hope, will rise; we shall gain the mastery over our enemies. | I am looking forward, I must tell you, Pericles, to a great improvement in our military affairs when you are minister of war. (2) The prestige of Athens, I hope, will rise; we shall gain the mastery over our enemies. | ||
Line 1738: | Line 1738: | ||
(4) Reading {megalophronestatoi}, | (4) Reading {megalophronestatoi}, | ||
- | | + | or if as vulg. {philophronestatoi}, |
Per. Nor is there much fault to find with Athenians in these respects. | Per. Nor is there much fault to find with Athenians in these respects. | ||
Line 1745: | Line 1745: | ||
(5) See Wesley' | (5) See Wesley' | ||
- | | + | men and our fathers that begat us." |
Per. All that you say, Socrates, is most true, but do you observe that ever since the disaster of the thousand under Tolmides at Lebadeia, coupled with that under Hippocrates at Delium, (6) the prestige of Athens by comparison with the Boeotians has been lowered, whilst the spirit of Thebes as against Athens had been correspondingly exalted, so that those Boeotians who in old days did not venture to give battle to the Athenians even in their own territory unless they had the Lacedaemonians and the rest of the Peloponnesians to help them, do nowadays threaten to make an incursion into Attica single-handed; | Per. All that you say, Socrates, is most true, but do you observe that ever since the disaster of the thousand under Tolmides at Lebadeia, coupled with that under Hippocrates at Delium, (6) the prestige of Athens by comparison with the Boeotians has been lowered, whilst the spirit of Thebes as against Athens had been correspondingly exalted, so that those Boeotians who in old days did not venture to give battle to the Athenians even in their own territory unless they had the Lacedaemonians and the rest of the Peloponnesians to help them, do nowadays threaten to make an incursion into Attica single-handed; | ||
(6) Lebadeia, 447 B.C.; Delium, 424 B.C. For Tolmides and Hippocrates | (6) Lebadeia, 447 B.C.; Delium, 424 B.C. For Tolmides and Hippocrates | ||
- | | + | see Thuc. i. 113; iv. 100 foll.; Grote, "H. G." v. 471; vi. 533. |
(7) Reading {ote B. monoi}, al. {ou monoi}, "when the Boeotians were | (7) Reading {ote B. monoi}, al. {ou monoi}, "when the Boeotians were | ||
- | | + | not unaided." |
To which Socrates: Yes, I perceive that this is so, but it seems to me that the state was never more tractably disposed, never so ripe for a really good leader, as to-day. For if boldness be the parent of carelessness, | To which Socrates: Yes, I perceive that this is so, but it seems to me that the state was never more tractably disposed, never so ripe for a really good leader, as to-day. For if boldness be the parent of carelessness, | ||
Line 1760: | Line 1760: | ||
(8) Reading {anerasthenai}, | (8) Reading {anerasthenai}, | ||
- | | + | {aneristhenai}. |
Well (proceeded Socrates), supposing we wished them to lay claim to certain material wealth now held by others, we could not better stimulate them to lay hands on the objects coveted than by showing them that these were ancestral possessions (9) to which they had a natural right. But since our object is that they should set their hearts on virtuous pre-eminence, | Well (proceeded Socrates), supposing we wished them to lay claim to certain material wealth now held by others, we could not better stimulate them to lay hands on the objects coveted than by showing them that these were ancestral possessions (9) to which they had a natural right. But since our object is that they should set their hearts on virtuous pre-eminence, | ||
(9) Cf. Solon in the matter of Salamis, Plut. " | (9) Cf. Solon in the matter of Salamis, Plut. " | ||
- | | + | Lyr. Gr. Solon," |
Por. How are we to inculcate this lesson? | Por. How are we to inculcate this lesson? | ||
Line 1784: | Line 1784: | ||
(14) Commonly spoken of as "the Return." | (14) Commonly spoken of as "the Return." | ||
- | | + | xviii. |
(15) Against the Amazons and Thracians; cf. Herod. ix. 27; Plut. | (15) Against the Amazons and Thracians; cf. Herod. ix. 27; Plut. | ||
- | | + | " |
(16) The " | (16) The " | ||
Line 1804: | Line 1804: | ||
(19) Reading {athletai tines}, or if {alloi tines}, translate "any one | (19) Reading {athletai tines}, or if {alloi tines}, translate "any one | ||
- | | + | else." |
Per. What then ought we to do now to recover our former virtue? | Per. What then ought we to do now to recover our former virtue? | ||
Line 1821: | Line 1821: | ||
(24) Reading {ateria}. See L. Dindorf ad loc., Ox. ed. lxii. Al. | (24) Reading {ateria}. See L. Dindorf ad loc., Ox. ed. lxii. Al. | ||
- | | + | {apeiria}, a want of skill, or {ataxia}, disorderliness. Cf. " |
- | Ath." i. 5. | + | |
(25) Possibly the author is thinking of the events of 406, 405 B.C. | (25) Possibly the author is thinking of the events of 406, 405 B.C. | ||
- | | + | (see " |
Do not (replied Socrates), do not, I pray you, permit yourself to believe that Athenians are smitten with so incurable a depravity. Do you not observe their discipline in all naval matters? Look at their prompt and orderly obedience to the superintendents at the gymnastic contests, (26) their quite unrivalled subservience to their teachers in the training of our choruses. | Do not (replied Socrates), do not, I pray you, permit yourself to believe that Athenians are smitten with so incurable a depravity. Do you not observe their discipline in all naval matters? Look at their prompt and orderly obedience to the superintendents at the gymnastic contests, (26) their quite unrivalled subservience to their teachers in the training of our choruses. | ||
Line 1838: | Line 1838: | ||
(28) Technically, | (28) Technically, | ||
- | | + | " |
- | "Ath. Pol." 4. 4, where see Dr. Sandys' | + | " |
Certainly (he answered). | Certainly (he answered). | ||
Line 1870: | Line 1870: | ||
(32) For this illustration see " | (32) For this illustration see " | ||
- | | + | 18, where Socrates ({XS}) refers to Cyrus' |
Per. Yes, the circumstance is not new to me. | Per. Yes, the circumstance is not new to me. | ||
Line 1889: | Line 1889: | ||
(3) See Plat. " | (3) See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | advice who is not supposed by them to have any skill in the art |
- | | + | (sc. of politics), even though he be good-looking, |
- | noble, they will not listen to him, but laugh at him, and hoot | + | |
- | him, until he is either clamoured down and retires of himself; or | + | him, until he is either clamoured down and retires of himself; or |
- | if he persists, he is dragged away or put out by the constables at | + | if he persists, he is dragged away or put out by the constables at |
- | the command of the prytanes" | + | the command of the prytanes" |
- | 665, {kath eilkon auton oi prutaneis kai toxotai}. | + | 665, {kath eilkon auton oi prutaneis kai toxotai}. |
(4) For Charmides (maternal uncle of Plato and Glaucon, cousin of | (4) For Charmides (maternal uncle of Plato and Glaucon, cousin of | ||
- | | + | Critias) see ch. vii. below; Plato the philosopher, |
- | brother, see Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 28. | + | |
(5) Or, "and in the first instance addressing him in such terms he | (5) Or, "and in the first instance addressing him in such terms he | ||
- | | + | could not choose but hear, detained him." See above, II. vi. 11. |
- | Socrates applies his own theory. | + | |
Ah, Glaucon (he exclaimed), so you have determined to become prime minister? (6) | Ah, Glaucon (he exclaimed), so you have determined to become prime minister? (6) | ||
Line 1924: | Line 1924: | ||
(8) Or, "tell us what your starting-point will be in the path of | (8) Or, "tell us what your starting-point will be in the path of | ||
- | | + | benefaction." |
Most decidedly (he answered). | Most decidedly (he answered). | ||
Line 1935: | Line 1935: | ||
(9) Or, "or if others have dropped out or been negligently overlooked, | (9) Or, "or if others have dropped out or been negligently overlooked, | ||
- | | + | you may replace them." |
Glauc. Nay, to speak the truth, these are matters I have not thoroughly gone into. | Glauc. Nay, to speak the truth, these are matters I have not thoroughly gone into. | ||
Line 1968: | Line 1968: | ||
(11) Or, " | (11) Or, " | ||
- | | + | " |
Glauc. Yes, sweep them all away, that's my advice; for any good that is likely to come of them! Defences indeed! so maintained that the property of the rural districts is simply pilfered. | Glauc. Yes, sweep them all away, that's my advice; for any good that is likely to come of them! Defences indeed! so maintained that the property of the rural districts is simply pilfered. | ||
Line 1983: | Line 1983: | ||
(12) Again the author' | (12) Again the author' | ||
- | | + | matter. |
Well, no; I have never been there myself (he answered). | Well, no; I have never been there myself (he answered). | ||
Line 2004: | Line 2004: | ||
(14) Or, "to talk of things which he does not know, or to meddle with | (14) Or, "to talk of things which he does not know, or to meddle with | ||
- | | + | them." |
(15) Or, "try as far as possible to achieve one thing, and that is to | (15) Or, "try as far as possible to achieve one thing, and that is to | ||
- | | + | know the business which you propose to carry out." |
Now Charmides, (1) the son of Glaucon, was, as Socrates observed, a man of mark and influence: a much more powerful person in fact than the mass of those devoted to politics at that date, but at the same time he was a man who shrank from approaching the people or busying himself with the concerns of the state. Accordingly Socrates addressed him thus: | Now Charmides, (1) the son of Glaucon, was, as Socrates observed, a man of mark and influence: a much more powerful person in fact than the mass of those devoted to politics at that date, but at the same time he was a man who shrank from approaching the people or busying himself with the concerns of the state. Accordingly Socrates addressed him thus: | ||
(1) See last chapter for his relationship to Glaucon (the younger) and | (1) See last chapter for his relationship to Glaucon (the younger) and | ||
- | | + | Plato; for a conception of his character, Plato' |
- | " | + | " |
- | Grote, " | + | |
Tell me, Charmides, supposing some one competent to win a victory in the arena and to receive a crown, (2) whereby he will gain honour himself and make the land of his fathers more glorious in Hellas, (3) were to refuse to enter the lists—what kind of person should you set him down to be? | Tell me, Charmides, supposing some one competent to win a victory in the arena and to receive a crown, (2) whereby he will gain honour himself and make the land of his fathers more glorious in Hellas, (3) were to refuse to enter the lists—what kind of person should you set him down to be? | ||
(2) In some conquest (e.g. of the Olympic games) where the prize is a | (2) In some conquest (e.g. of the Olympic games) where the prize is a | ||
- | | + | mere wreath. |
(3) Cf. Pindar passim. | (3) Cf. Pindar passim. | ||
Line 2056: | Line 2056: | ||
(8) {oi eteroi}, i.e. "the foremost statesmen" | (8) {oi eteroi}, i.e. "the foremost statesmen" | ||
- | | + | "the opposite party," |
- | political clubs. | + | |
(9) Lit. " | (9) Lit. " | ||
(10) Ernesti aptly cf. Cic. "ad Quint." | (10) Ernesti aptly cf. Cic. "ad Quint." | ||
- | | + | IV. ii. 24. |
Once when Aristippus (1) set himself to subject Socrates to a cross-examination, | Once when Aristippus (1) set himself to subject Socrates to a cross-examination, | ||
(1) For Aristippus see above, p. 38; for the connection, {boulomenos | (1) For Aristippus see above, p. 38; for the connection, {boulomenos | ||
- | | + | tous sunontas ophelein}, between this and the preceeding chapter, |
- | see above, Conspectus, p. xxvi. | + | see above, Conspectus, p. xxvi. |
(2) Possibly in reference to the conversation above. In reference to | (2) Possibly in reference to the conversation above. In reference to | ||
- | | + | the present dialogue see Grote, " |
(3) For {prattein ta deonta} cf. below, III. ix. 4, 11; Plat. " | (3) For {prattein ta deonta} cf. below, III. ix. 4, 11; Plat. " | ||
- | | + | 164 B; but see J. J. Hartman, "An. Xen." p. 141. |
Aristippus asked him "if he knew of anything good," (4) intending in case he assented and named any particular good thing, like food or drink, or wealth, or health, or strength, or courage, to point out that the thing named was sometimes bad. But he, knowing that if a thing troubles us, we immediately want that which will put an end to our trouble, answered precisely as it was best to do. (5) | Aristippus asked him "if he knew of anything good," (4) intending in case he assented and named any particular good thing, like food or drink, or wealth, or health, or strength, or courage, to point out that the thing named was sometimes bad. But he, knowing that if a thing troubles us, we immediately want that which will put an end to our trouble, answered precisely as it was best to do. (5) | ||
Line 2109: | Line 2109: | ||
(6) See Grote, "H. G." x. 164, in reference to Epaminondas and his | (6) See Grote, "H. G." x. 164, in reference to Epaminondas and his | ||
- | | + | gymnastic training; below, III. x. 6. |
Aristip. Your answers are no better now than (7) when I asked you whether you knew any good thing. They are both of a pattern. | Aristip. Your answers are no better now than (7) when I asked you whether you knew any good thing. They are both of a pattern. | ||
Line 2118: | Line 2118: | ||
(8) Or, "good and beautiful are convertible terms: whatever is good is | (8) Or, "good and beautiful are convertible terms: whatever is good is | ||
- | | + | beautiful, or whatever is beautiful is good." |
(9) Or, "in the same breath." | (9) Or, "in the same breath." | ||
- | | + | 474 D. |
(10) Or, "and this standard is the serviceableness of the thing in | (10) Or, "and this standard is the serviceableness of the thing in | ||
- | | + | question." |
Aristip. Then I presume even a basket for carrying dung (11) is a beautiful thing? | Aristip. Then I presume even a basket for carrying dung (11) is a beautiful thing? | ||
(11) Cf. Plat. "Hipp. maj." 288 D, 290 D; and Grote' | (11) Cf. Plat. "Hipp. maj." 288 D, 290 D; and Grote' | ||
- | | + | p. 381: "in regard to the question wherein consists {to kalon}?" |
Soc. To be sure, and a spear of gold an ugly thing, if for their respective uses—the former is well and the latter ill adapted. | Soc. To be sure, and a spear of gold an ugly thing, if for their respective uses—the former is well and the latter ill adapted. | ||
Line 2154: | Line 2154: | ||
(16) See " | (16) See " | ||
- | | + | " |
(17) {euphrosunas}, | (17) {euphrosunas}, | ||
- | | + | vi. 1. |
The fittest place for a temple or an altar (he maintained) was some site visible from afar, and untrodden by foot of man: (18) since it was a glad thing for the worshipper to lift up his eyes afar off and offer up his orison; glad also to wend his way peaceful to prayer unsullied. (19) | The fittest place for a temple or an altar (he maintained) was some site visible from afar, and untrodden by foot of man: (18) since it was a glad thing for the worshipper to lift up his eyes afar off and offer up his orison; glad also to wend his way peaceful to prayer unsullied. (19) | ||
(18) e.g. the summit of Lycabettos, or the height on which stands the | (18) e.g. the summit of Lycabettos, or the height on which stands the | ||
- | | + | temple of Phygaleia. Cf. Eur. " |
- | khrusaspidos blepsas pros oikon euxato} of Eteocles. | + | |
(19) See Vitruvius, i. 7, iv. 5, ap. Schneid. ad loc.; W. L. Newman, | (19) See Vitruvius, i. 7, iv. 5, ap. Schneid. ad loc.; W. L. Newman, | ||
- | | + | op. cit. i. 338. |
Being again asked by some one: could courage be taught, (1) or did it come by nature? he answered: I imagine that just as one body is by nature stronger than another body to encounter toils, so one soul by nature grows more robust than another soul in face of dangers. Certainly I do note that people brought up under the same condition of laws and customs differ greatly in respect of daring. Still my belief is that by learning and practice the natural aptitude may always be strengthened towards courage. It is clear, for instance, that Scythians or Thracians would not venture to take shield and spear and contend with Lacedaemonians; | Being again asked by some one: could courage be taught, (1) or did it come by nature? he answered: I imagine that just as one body is by nature stronger than another body to encounter toils, so one soul by nature grows more robust than another soul in face of dangers. Certainly I do note that people brought up under the same condition of laws and customs differ greatly in respect of daring. Still my belief is that by learning and practice the natural aptitude may always be strengthened towards courage. It is clear, for instance, that Scythians or Thracians would not venture to take shield and spear and contend with Lacedaemonians; | ||
(1) Or, "When some one retorted upon him with the question: 'Can | (1) Or, "When some one retorted upon him with the question: 'Can | ||
- | | + | courage be taught?'" |
- | " | + | " |
- | Joel, op. cit. p. 325 foll.; Grote, " | + | Joel, op. cit. p. 325 foll.; Grote, " |
- | Jowett, " | + | |
(2) Or, " | (2) Or, " | ||
- | | + | Scythians with bows and arrows"; |
- | these peoples respectively see Arist. " | + | these peoples respectively see Arist. " |
- | iv. 15; VI. VII. passim. | + | iv. 15; VI. VII. passim. |
Between wisdom and sobriety of soul (which is temperance) he drew no distinction. (3) Was a man able on the one hand to recognise things beautiful and good sufficiently to live in them? Had he, on the other hand, knowledge of the "base and foul" so as to beware of them? If so, Socrates judged him to be wise at once and sound of soul (or temperate). (4) | Between wisdom and sobriety of soul (which is temperance) he drew no distinction. (3) Was a man able on the one hand to recognise things beautiful and good sufficiently to live in them? Had he, on the other hand, knowledge of the "base and foul" so as to beware of them? If so, Socrates judged him to be wise at once and sound of soul (or temperate). (4) | ||
Line 2186: | Line 2186: | ||
(4) Reading {alla to... kai to}, or more lit. "he discovered the | (4) Reading {alla to... kai to}, or more lit. "he discovered the | ||
- | | + | wise man and sound of soul in his power not only to recognise |
- | things ' | + | |
- | being in them; as also in his gift of avoiding consciously things | + | being in them; as also in his gift of avoiding consciously things |
- | base." Or if {alla ton... kai ton...} transl. "The man who | + | |
- | not only could recognise the beautiful and good, but lived, etc., | + | not only could recognise the beautiful and good, but lived, etc., |
- | in that world, and who moreover consciously avoided things base, in | + | in that world, and who moreover consciously avoided things base, in |
- | the judgment of Socrates was wise and sound of soul." Cf. Plat. | + | the judgment of Socrates was wise and sound of soul." Cf. Plat. |
- | " | + | " |
And being further questioned whether "he considered those who have the knowledge of right action, but do not apply it, to be wise and self-controlled?" | And being further questioned whether "he considered those who have the knowledge of right action, but do not apply it, to be wise and self-controlled?" | ||
(5) For the phrase "not a whit the more" see below, III. xii. 1; | (5) For the phrase "not a whit the more" see below, III. xii. 1; | ||
- | | + | " |
- | wise and self-controlled rather than foolish and intemperate." | + | wise and self-controlled rather than foolish and intemperate." |
(6) "Who cannot draw a straight line, ethically speaking." | (6) "Who cannot draw a straight line, ethically speaking." | ||
Line 2210: | Line 2210: | ||
(8) Or, "they resent the term ' | (8) Or, "they resent the term ' | ||
- | | + | all abroad," |
- | trans.) | + | |
In answer to the question: what is envy? he discovered it to be a certain kind of pain; not certainly the sorrow felt at the misfortunes of a friend or the good fortune of an enemy—that is not envy; but, as he said, "envy is felt by those alone who are annoyed at the successes of their friends." | In answer to the question: what is envy? he discovered it to be a certain kind of pain; not certainly the sorrow felt at the misfortunes of a friend or the good fortune of an enemy—that is not envy; but, as he said, "envy is felt by those alone who are annoyed at the successes of their friends." | ||
(9) Or, "a man in his senses... a simpleton"; | (9) Or, "a man in his senses... a simpleton"; | ||
- | | + | Dind. cf. Isocr. "ad Demonic." |
In answer to the question: what is leisure? I discover (he said) that most men do something: (10) for instance, the dice player, (11) the gambler, the buffoon, do something, but these have leisure; they can, if they like, turn and do something better; but nobody has leisure to turn from the better to the worse, and if he does so turn, when he has no leisure, he does but ill in that. | In answer to the question: what is leisure? I discover (he said) that most men do something: (10) for instance, the dice player, (11) the gambler, the buffoon, do something, but these have leisure; they can, if they like, turn and do something better; but nobody has leisure to turn from the better to the worse, and if he does so turn, when he has no leisure, he does but ill in that. | ||
(10) See above, I. ii. 57; and in ref. to these definitions, | (10) See above, I. ii. 57; and in ref. to these definitions, | ||
- | | + | op. cit. p. 347 foll. |
(11) For " | (11) For " | ||
- | | + | " |
(To pass to another definition.) They are not kings or rulers (he said) who hold the sceptre merely, or are chosen by fellows out of the street, (12) or are appointed by lot, or have stepped into office by violence or by fraud; but those who have the special knowledge (13) how to rule. Thus having won the admission that it is the function of a ruler to enjoin what ought to be done, and of those who are ruled to obey, he proceeded to point out by instances that in a ship the ruler or captain is the man of special knowledge, to whom, as an expert, the shipowner himself and all the others on board obey. So likewise, in the matter of husbandry, the proprietor of an estate; in that of sickness, the patient; in that of physical training of the body, the youthful athlete going through a course; and, in general, every one directly concerned in any matter needing attention and care will either attend to this matter personally, if he thinks he has the special knowledge; or, if he mistrusts his own science, will be eager to obey any expert on the spot, or will even send and fetch one from a distance. The guidance of this expert he will follow, and do what he has to do at his dictation. | (To pass to another definition.) They are not kings or rulers (he said) who hold the sceptre merely, or are chosen by fellows out of the street, (12) or are appointed by lot, or have stepped into office by violence or by fraud; but those who have the special knowledge (13) how to rule. Thus having won the admission that it is the function of a ruler to enjoin what ought to be done, and of those who are ruled to obey, he proceeded to point out by instances that in a ship the ruler or captain is the man of special knowledge, to whom, as an expert, the shipowner himself and all the others on board obey. So likewise, in the matter of husbandry, the proprietor of an estate; in that of sickness, the patient; in that of physical training of the body, the youthful athlete going through a course; and, in general, every one directly concerned in any matter needing attention and care will either attend to this matter personally, if he thinks he has the special knowledge; or, if he mistrusts his own science, will be eager to obey any expert on the spot, or will even send and fetch one from a distance. The guidance of this expert he will follow, and do what he has to do at his dictation. | ||
Line 2237: | Line 2237: | ||
(14) Or, "Is that to choose the path of safety, think you? Is it not | (14) Or, "Is that to choose the path of safety, think you? Is it not | ||
- | | + | rather to sign his own death-warrent?" |
- | and Days," 293. See Newman, op. cit. i. 393-397. | + | and Days," 293. See Newman, op. cit. i. 393-397. |
When some one asked him: "What he regarded as the best pursuit or business (15) for a man?" he answered: " | When some one asked him: "What he regarded as the best pursuit or business (15) for a man?" he answered: " | ||
Line 2245: | Line 2245: | ||
(16) {eupraxia, eu prattein}—to do well, in the sense both of well or | (16) {eupraxia, eu prattein}—to do well, in the sense both of well or | ||
- | | + | right doing, and of welfare, and is accordingly opposed to |
- | {eutukhia}, mere good luck or success. Cf. Plat. " | + | |
(17) Lit. " | (17) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | i. 305, 401. |
They are at once the best and the dearest in the sight of God (18) (he went on to say) who for instance in husbandry do well the things of farming, or in the art of healing all that belongs to healing, or in statecraft the affairs of state; whereas a man who does nothing well—nor well in anything—is (he added) neither good for anything nor dear to God. | They are at once the best and the dearest in the sight of God (18) (he went on to say) who for instance in husbandry do well the things of farming, or in the art of healing all that belongs to healing, or in statecraft the affairs of state; whereas a man who does nothing well—nor well in anything—is (he added) neither good for anything nor dear to God. | ||
Line 2258: | Line 2258: | ||
(1) {alla men kai}... "But indeed the sphere of his helpfulness was | (1) {alla men kai}... "But indeed the sphere of his helpfulness was | ||
- | | + | not circumscribed; |
(2) For Parrhasius of Ephesus, the son of Evenor and rival of Zeuxis, | (2) For Parrhasius of Ephesus, the son of Evenor and rival of Zeuxis, | ||
- | | + | see Woltmann and Woermann, "Hist. of Painting," |
- | Cobet, "Pros. Xen." p. 50 (cf. in particular Quint. XII. x. 627). | + | |
- | At the date of conversation (real or ideal) he may be supposed to | + | At the date of conversation (real or ideal) he may be supposed to |
- | have been a young man. | + | have been a young man. |
I suppose, Parrhasius (said he), painting may be defined as "a representation of visible objects," | I suppose, Parrhasius (said he), painting may be defined as "a representation of visible objects," | ||
(3) Reading with Schneider, L. Dind., etc., after Stobaeus, {e | (3) Reading with Schneider, L. Dind., etc., after Stobaeus, {e | ||
- | | + | graphike estin eikasia}, or if the vulg. {graphike estin e |
- | eikasia}, trans. " | + | |
- | representation," | + | |
You are right (he answered), that is so. | You are right (he answered), that is so. | ||
Line 2278: | Line 2278: | ||
(4) Cf. Cic. "de Invent." | (4) Cf. Cic. "de Invent." | ||
- | | + | 23, 3, ap. Schneider ad loc. |
Parrh. Yes, that is how we do. (5) | Parrh. Yes, that is how we do. (5) | ||
(5) Or, "that is the secret of our creations," | (5) Or, "that is the secret of our creations," | ||
- | | + | composition." |
Well, but stop (Socrates continued); do you also pretend to represent in similar perfection the characteristic moods of the soul, its captivating charm and sweetness, with its deep wells of love, its intensity of yearning, its burning point of passion? or is all this quite incapable of being depicted? | Well, but stop (Socrates continued); do you also pretend to represent in similar perfection the characteristic moods of the soul, its captivating charm and sweetness, with its deep wells of love, its intensity of yearning, its burning point of passion? or is all this quite incapable of being depicted? | ||
Line 2290: | Line 2290: | ||
(6) Lit. " | (6) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | dedit," |
Soc. Well, but the kindly look of love, the angry glance of hate at any one, do find expression in the human subject, do they not? (7) | Soc. Well, but the kindly look of love, the angry glance of hate at any one, do find expression in the human subject, do they not? (7) | ||
(7) Or, "the glance of love, the scowl of hate, which one directs | (7) Or, "the glance of love, the scowl of hate, which one directs | ||
- | | + | towards another, are recognised expressions of human feeling." |
- | the description of Parrhasius' | + | the description of Parrhasius' |
- | loc. cit. | + | loc. cit. |
Parrh. No doubt they do. | Parrh. No doubt they do. | ||
Line 2324: | Line 2324: | ||
(8) For this theory cp. Ruskin, "Mod. P." ii. 94 foll. and indeed | (8) For this theory cp. Ruskin, "Mod. P." ii. 94 foll. and indeed | ||
- | | + | passim. |
Parrh. Doubtless, Socrates, there is a vast distinction between the two. | Parrh. Doubtless, Socrates, there is a vast distinction between the two. | ||
Line 2331: | Line 2331: | ||
(9) An unknown artist. Coraes conj. {Kleona}. Cf. Plin. xxxiv. 19; | (9) An unknown artist. Coraes conj. {Kleona}. Cf. Plin. xxxiv. 19; | ||
- | | + | Paus. v. 17, vi. 3. He excelled in portrait statues. See Jowett, |
- | " | + | " |
You have a gallery of handsome people here, (10) Cleiton, runners, and wrestlers, and boxers, and pancratiasts—that I see and know; but how do you give the magic touch of life to your creations, which most of all allures the soul of the beholder through his sense of vision? | You have a gallery of handsome people here, (10) Cleiton, runners, and wrestlers, and boxers, and pancratiasts—that I see and know; but how do you give the magic touch of life to your creations, which most of all allures the soul of the beholder through his sense of vision? | ||
(10) Reading after L. Dind. {kaloi ous}, or if vulg. {alloious}, | (10) Reading after L. Dind. {kaloi ous}, or if vulg. {alloious}, | ||
- | | + | translate "You have a variety of types, Cleiton, not all of one |
- | mould, but runners," | + | |
- | diversity of form to your runners," | + | |
As Cleiton stood perplexed, and did not answer at once, Socrates added: Is it by closely imitating the forms of living beings that you succeed in giving that touch of life to your statues? | As Cleiton stood perplexed, and did not answer at once, Socrates added: Is it by closely imitating the forms of living beings that you succeed in giving that touch of life to your statues? | ||
Line 2362: | Line 2362: | ||
(11) Cf. Athen. iv. 20, where the same artist is referred to | (11) Cf. Athen. iv. 20, where the same artist is referred to | ||
- | | + | apparently as {Piston}, and for the type of person see the |
- | " | + | " |
- | " | + | " |
By Hera! a pretty invention this, Pistias, by which you contrive that the corselet should cover the parts of the person which need protection, and at the same time leave free play to the arms and hands.... but tell me, Pistias (he added), why do you ask a higher price for these corselets of yours if they are not stouter or made of costlier material than the others? | By Hera! a pretty invention this, Pistias, by which you contrive that the corselet should cover the parts of the person which need protection, and at the same time leave free play to the arms and hands.... but tell me, Pistias (he added), why do you ask a higher price for these corselets of yours if they are not stouter or made of costlier material than the others? | ||
Line 2381: | Line 2381: | ||
(12) Or, "how do you make a well-proportioned corselet fit an ill- | (12) Or, "how do you make a well-proportioned corselet fit an ill- | ||
- | | + | |
Pist. To the same degree exactly as I make it fit. What fits is well proportioned. | Pist. To the same degree exactly as I make it fit. What fits is well proportioned. | ||
Line 2392: | Line 2392: | ||
(13) Schneider ad loc. cf Eur. " | (13) Schneider ad loc. cf Eur. " | ||
- | | + | and for the weight cf. Aristoph. " |
Pist. You have named the very quality which gives my work its exceptional value, as I consider; still there are customers, I am bound to say, who look for something else in a corselet—they must have them ornamental or inlaid with gold. | Pist. You have named the very quality which gives my work its exceptional value, as I consider; still there are customers, I am bound to say, who look for something else in a corselet—they must have them ornamental or inlaid with gold. | ||
Line 2405: | Line 2405: | ||
(14) Or, " | (14) Or, " | ||
- | | + | state the matter more explicitly myself." |
There was once in the city a fair woman named Theodote. (1) She was not only fair, but ready to consort with any suitor who might win her favour. Now it chanced that some one of the company mentioned her, saying that her beauty beggared description. "So fair is she," he added, "that painters flock to draw her portrait, to whom, within the limits of decorum, she displays the marvels of her beauty." | There was once in the city a fair woman named Theodote. (1) She was not only fair, but ready to consort with any suitor who might win her favour. Now it chanced that some one of the company mentioned her, saying that her beauty beggared description. "So fair is she," he added, "that painters flock to draw her portrait, to whom, within the limits of decorum, she displays the marvels of her beauty." | ||
(1) For Theodote see Athen. v. 200 F, xiii. 574 F; Liban. i. 582. Some | (1) For Theodote see Athen. v. 200 F, xiii. 574 F; Liban. i. 582. Some | ||
- | | + | say that it was Theodote who stood by Alcibiades to the last, |
- | though there are apparently other better claimants to the honour. | + | |
- | Plut. " | + | Plut. " |
"Do you think, sirs, that we ought to thank Theodote for displaying her beauty to us, or she us for coming to gaze at her?... It would seem, would it not, that if the exhibition of her charms is the more profitable to her, the debt is on her side; but if the spectacle of her beauty confers the greater benefit on us, then we are her debtors." | "Do you think, sirs, that we ought to thank Theodote for displaying her beauty to us, or she us for coming to gaze at her?... It would seem, would it not, that if the exhibition of her charms is the more profitable to her, the debt is on her side; but if the spectacle of her beauty confers the greater benefit on us, then we are her debtors." | ||
Line 2423: | Line 2423: | ||
(2) In reference to the remark of Socrates above; or, "have to thank | (2) In reference to the remark of Socrates above; or, "have to thank | ||
- | | + | you for coming to look at me." |
At this point, seeing that the lady herself was expensively attired, and that she had with her her mother also, whose dress and style of attendance (3) were out of the common, not to speak of the waiting-women—many and fair to look upon, who presented anything but a forlorn appearance; while in every respect the whole house itself was sumptuously furnished—Socrates put a question: | At this point, seeing that the lady herself was expensively attired, and that she had with her her mother also, whose dress and style of attendance (3) were out of the common, not to speak of the waiting-women—many and fair to look upon, who presented anything but a forlorn appearance; while in every respect the whole house itself was sumptuously furnished—Socrates put a question: | ||
(3) Or, "her mother there with her in a dress and general get-up | (3) Or, "her mother there with her in a dress and general get-up | ||
- | | + | ({therapeia}) which was out of the common." |
- | " | + | " |
Pray tell me, Theodote, have you an estate in the country? | Pray tell me, Theodote, have you an estate in the country? | ||
Line 2441: | Line 2441: | ||
Soc. You are not an employer of labour on a large scale? (4) | Soc. You are not an employer of labour on a large scale? (4) | ||
- | (4) Lit. "You have not (in your employ) a body of handicraftsmen of | + | (4) Lit. "You have not (in your employ) a body of handicraftsmen of |
- | any sort?" | + | any sort?" |
Theod. No, nor yet an employer of labour. | Theod. No, nor yet an employer of labour. | ||
Line 2471: | Line 2471: | ||
(10) Or, "close at their heels and run them down." See " | (10) Or, "close at their heels and run them down." See " | ||
- | | + | " |
Theod. And by what like contrivance would you have me catch my lovers? | Theod. And by what like contrivance would you have me catch my lovers? | ||
Line 2486: | Line 2486: | ||
(13) Or, "with what smiles to lie in wait for (cf. ' | (13) Or, "with what smiles to lie in wait for (cf. ' | ||
- | | + | 20; Herod. vi. 104) the devoted admirer, and how to banish from |
- | your presence the voluptary." | + | your presence the voluptary." |
(14) Or, "that it should be simply soft, but full of tender goodwill." | (14) Or, "that it should be simply soft, but full of tender goodwill." | ||
Line 2500: | Line 2500: | ||
(15) Or, "This is the right road to friendship—permanent and open- | (15) Or, "This is the right road to friendship—permanent and open- | ||
- | | + | handed friendship." |
Theod. How then shall I create this hunger in the heart of my friends? | Theod. How then shall I create this hunger in the heart of my friends? | ||
Line 2523: | Line 2523: | ||
(16) For Apollodorus see " | (16) For Apollodorus see " | ||
- | | + | A, 117 D. For Antisthenes see above. For Cebes and Simmias see |
- | above, I. ii. 48; Plat. " | + | |
Theod. I wish you would lend me your magic-wheel, | Theod. I wish you would lend me your magic-wheel, | ||
Line 2539: | Line 2539: | ||
(1) Epigenes, possibly the son of Antiphon. See Plat. " | (1) Epigenes, possibly the son of Antiphon. See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | " |
Soc. You have not the athletic appearance of a youth in training, (2) Epigenes. | Soc. You have not the athletic appearance of a youth in training, (2) Epigenes. | ||
(2) {idiotikos}, | (2) {idiotikos}, | ||
- | | + | Cluer ad loc. Cf. Plat. " |
- | " | + | " |
And he: That may well be, seeing I am an amateur and not in training. | And he: That may well be, seeing I am an amateur and not in training. | ||
Line 2552: | Line 2552: | ||
(3) Or, " | (3) Or, " | ||
- | | + | death struggle with Thebes? |
(4) e.g. the prisoners in the Latomiae. Thuc. vii. 87. | (4) e.g. the prisoners in the Latomiae. Thuc. vii. 87. | ||
(5) It is almost a proverb—" | (5) It is almost a proverb—" | ||
- | | + | strong." |
(6) e.g. Socrates himself, according to Alcibiades, ap. Plat. " | (6) e.g. Socrates himself, according to Alcibiades, ap. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | 221 B; and for the word {euskhemonos} see Arist. " |
- | "like a gentleman"; | + | " |
- | N." i. 10, 13, " | + | |
Because our city does not practise military training in public, (7) that is no reason for neglecting it in private, but rather a reason for making it a foremost care. For be you assured that there is no contest of any sort, nor any transaction, | Because our city does not practise military training in public, (7) that is no reason for neglecting it in private, but rather a reason for making it a foremost care. For be you assured that there is no contest of any sort, nor any transaction, | ||
Line 2571: | Line 2571: | ||
(9) Or, "he may well hope to be insured by his good habit against the | (9) Or, "he may well hope to be insured by his good habit against the | ||
- | | + | evils attendant on its opposite." |
(10) Or, "to present themselves spontaneously." | (10) Or, "to present themselves spontaneously." | ||
Line 2580: | Line 2580: | ||
(1) A well-known physician. See Plat. " | (1) A well-known physician. See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | 176 B. A similar story is told of Dr. Abernethy, I think. |
(2) Lit. "he would live a happier, thriftier, and healthier life, if | (2) Lit. "he would live a happier, thriftier, and healthier life, if | ||
- | | + | he stopped eating." |
And when some one else lamented that "the drinking-water in his house was hot," he replied: "Then when you want a warm bath you will not have to wait." | And when some one else lamented that "the drinking-water in his house was hot," he replied: "Then when you want a warm bath you will not have to wait." | ||
Line 2596: | Line 2596: | ||
(3) In the Hieron at Epidauros probably. See Baedeker, " | (3) In the Hieron at Epidauros probably. See Baedeker, " | ||
- | | + | 240 foll. |
The Other. The water in the temple of Asclepius. | The Other. The water in the temple of Asclepius. | ||
Line 2643: | Line 2643: | ||
(1) For the type of entertainment see Becker, " | (1) For the type of entertainment see Becker, " | ||
- | | + | (Eng. tr.) |
(2) "The boy." | (2) "The boy." | ||
(3) Or, "were ashamed not to follow suit by sharing in the common | (3) Or, "were ashamed not to follow suit by sharing in the common | ||
- | | + | stock and contributing their own portion." |
At a supper-party one member of the company, as Socrates chanced to note, had put aside the plain fare and was devoting himself to certain dainties. (4) A discussion was going on about names and definitions, | At a supper-party one member of the company, as Socrates chanced to note, had put aside the plain fare and was devoting himself to certain dainties. (4) A discussion was going on about names and definitions, | ||
(4) For the distinction between {sitos} and {opson} see Plat. " | (4) For the distinction between {sitos} and {opson} see Plat. " | ||
- | | + | 372 C. |
(5) Or, "The conversation had fallen upon names: what is the precise | (5) Or, "The conversation had fallen upon names: what is the precise | ||
- | | + | thing denoted under such and such a term? Define the meaning of so |
- | and so." | + | and so." |
(6) {opsophagos} = {opson} (or relish) eater, and so a " | (6) {opsophagos} = {opson} (or relish) eater, and so a " | ||
- | | + | " |
(7) Lit. "takes some {opson} (relish) to his {sitos} (food)." | (7) Lit. "takes some {opson} (relish) to his {sitos} (food)." | ||
(8) Lit. " | (8) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | For {epi touto} cf. Plat. " |
No! hardly! (some member of the company replied). | No! hardly! (some member of the company replied). | ||
Line 2672: | Line 2672: | ||
(9) Lit. " | (9) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | etc. The English reader wil bear in mind that a raw beefsteak or |
- | other meat prescribed by the gymnastic trainer in preference to | + | other meat prescribed by the gymnastic trainer in preference to |
- | farinaceous food ({sitos}) would be {opson}. | + | |
(10) Or, more lit. " | (10) Or, more lit. " | ||
- | | + | better." |
(11) Lit. "and what of the man who eats much {opson} on the top of a | (11) Lit. "and what of the man who eats much {opson} on the top of a | ||
- | | + | little ({sitos})?" |
- | like the man in a fragment of Euripides, " | + | like the man in a fragment of Euripides, " |
- | boeiois khlora suk' epesthien}, who " | + | |
- | with a garnish of green figs." | + | with a garnish of green figs." |
Soc. He has established a very fair title at any rate to the appellation, | Soc. He has established a very fair title at any rate to the appellation, | ||
Line 2690: | Line 2690: | ||
(12) Lit. "see whether he will make a relish of the staple or a staple | (12) Lit. "see whether he will make a relish of the staple or a staple | ||
- | | + | of the relish" |
Another time, seeing one of the company using but one sop of bread (13) to test several savoury dishes, he remarked: Could there be a more extravagant style of cookery, or more murderous to the dainty dishes themselves, than this wholesale method of taking so many dishes together? | Another time, seeing one of the company using but one sop of bread (13) to test several savoury dishes, he remarked: Could there be a more extravagant style of cookery, or more murderous to the dainty dishes themselves, than this wholesale method of taking so many dishes together? | ||
(13) {psomos}, a sop or morsel of bread (cf. {psomion}, N. T., in mod. | (13) {psomos}, a sop or morsel of bread (cf. {psomion}, N. T., in mod. | ||
- | | + | Greek = " |
(14) Huckleberry Finn (p. 2 of that young person' | (14) Huckleberry Finn (p. 2 of that young person' | ||
- | | + | propounds the rationale of the system: "In a barrel of odds and |
- | ends it is different; things get mixed up, and the juice kind of | + | ends it is different; things get mixed up, and the juice kind of |
- | swaps around, and the things go better." | + | swaps around, and the things go better." |
He had a saying that {euokheisthai}, | He had a saying that {euokheisthai}, | ||
(15) {euokheisthai}, | (15) {euokheisthai}, | ||
- | | + | cf. Eustah. "ad Il." ii. p. 212, 37, {' |
- | legousin oxutonos}. Athen. viii. 363 B. See " | + | |
- | of horses. Cf. Arist. "H. A." viii. 6. | + | of horses. Cf. Arist. "H. A." viii. 6. |
(16) See " | (16) See " | ||
- | | + | " |
===== BOOK IV ===== | ===== BOOK IV ===== | ||
Line 2720: | Line 2720: | ||
(1) Or, "not excellence of body in respect of beauty, but of the soul | (1) Or, "not excellence of body in respect of beauty, but of the soul | ||
- | | + | as regards virtue; and this good natural disposition might be |
- | detected by the readiness of its possessor to learn," | + | |
- | Plat. " | + | Plat. " |
(2) Cf. above, I. i. 7. | (2) Cf. above, I. i. 7. | ||
(3) Or, "A person of this type would, if educated, not only prove a | (3) Or, "A person of this type would, if educated, not only prove a | ||
- | | + | fortune-favoured individual himself and," etc. Al. Kuhner, " |
- | qui ita instituti sunt, ut tales sint." | + | qui ita instituti sunt, ut tales sint." |
He had indeed a different way of dealing with different kinds of people. (4) Those who thought they had good natural ability and despised learning he instructed that the most highly-gifted nature stands most in need of training and education; (5) and he would point out how in the case of horses it is just the spirited and fiery thoroughbred which, if properly broken in as a colt, will develop into a serviceable and superb animal, but if left unbroken will turn out utterly intractable and good for nothing. Or take the case of dogs: a puppy exhibiting that zest for toil and eagerness to attack wild creatures which are the marks of high breeding, (6) will, if well brought up, prove excellent for the chase or for any other useful purpose; but neglect his education and he will turn out a stupid, crazy brute, incapable of obeying the simplest command. It is just the same with human beings; here also the youth of best natural endowments—that is to say, possessing the most robust qualities of spirit and a fixed determination to carry out whatever he has laid his hand to—will, if trained and taught what it is right to do, prove a superlatively good and useful man. He achieves, in fact, what is best upon the grandest scale. But leave him in boorish ignorance untrained, and he will prove not only very bad but very mischievous, | He had indeed a different way of dealing with different kinds of people. (4) Those who thought they had good natural ability and despised learning he instructed that the most highly-gifted nature stands most in need of training and education; (5) and he would point out how in the case of horses it is just the spirited and fiery thoroughbred which, if properly broken in as a colt, will develop into a serviceable and superb animal, but if left unbroken will turn out utterly intractable and good for nothing. Or take the case of dogs: a puppy exhibiting that zest for toil and eagerness to attack wild creatures which are the marks of high breeding, (6) will, if well brought up, prove excellent for the chase or for any other useful purpose; but neglect his education and he will turn out a stupid, crazy brute, incapable of obeying the simplest command. It is just the same with human beings; here also the youth of best natural endowments—that is to say, possessing the most robust qualities of spirit and a fixed determination to carry out whatever he has laid his hand to—will, if trained and taught what it is right to do, prove a superlatively good and useful man. He achieves, in fact, what is best upon the grandest scale. But leave him in boorish ignorance untrained, and he will prove not only very bad but very mischievous, | ||
(4) Or, "His method of attack was not indeed uniformly the same. It | (4) Or, "His method of attack was not indeed uniformly the same. It | ||
- | | + | varied with the individual." |
(5) Or, "If any one was disposed to look down upon learning and study | (5) Or, "If any one was disposed to look down upon learning and study | ||
- | | + | in reliance upon his own natural ability, he tried to lesson him |
- | that it is just the highly-gifted nature which stands," | + | that it is just the highly-gifted nature which stands," |
- | Newman, op. cit. i. 397. | + | |
(6) Cf. Aristot. "H. A." ix. 1; and " | (6) Cf. Aristot. "H. A." ix. 1; and " | ||
(7) Or, "and the same man may easily become a master villain of the | (7) Or, "and the same man may easily become a master villain of the | ||
- | | + | most dangerous sort." |
(8) Kuhner ad loc. after Fr. Hermann cf. Plato. " | (8) Kuhner ad loc. after Fr. Hermann cf. Plato. " | ||
- | | + | min." 375 E; " |
Or to take the type of person so eaten up with the pride of riches that he conceives himself dispensed from any further need of education—since it is "money makes the man," and his wealth will amply suffice him to carry out his desires and to win honours from admiring humanity. (9) Socrates would bring such people to their senses by pointing out the folly of supposing that without instruction it was possible to draw the line of demarcation (10) between what is gainful and what is hurtful in conduct; and the further folly of supposing that, apart from such discrimination, | Or to take the type of person so eaten up with the pride of riches that he conceives himself dispensed from any further need of education—since it is "money makes the man," and his wealth will amply suffice him to carry out his desires and to win honours from admiring humanity. (9) Socrates would bring such people to their senses by pointing out the folly of supposing that without instruction it was possible to draw the line of demarcation (10) between what is gainful and what is hurtful in conduct; and the further folly of supposing that, apart from such discrimination, | ||
Line 2753: | Line 2753: | ||
(10) Or, "that without learning the distinction it was possible to | (10) Or, "that without learning the distinction it was possible to | ||
- | | + | distinguish between," |
Or to come to a third kind—the class of people who are persuaded that they have received the best education, and are proud of their wisdom: his manner of dealing with these I will now describe. | Or to come to a third kind—the class of people who are persuaded that they have received the best education, and are proud of their wisdom: his manner of dealing with these I will now describe. | ||
Line 2760: | Line 2760: | ||
(1) Euthydemus, the son of Diocles perhaps. See Plat. " | (1) Euthydemus, the son of Diocles perhaps. See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | and Jowet ad loc.; Cobet, " |
- | p. 372 foll. For {ton kalon} cf. " | + | p. 372 foll. For {ton kalon} cf. " |
- | fair." For the whole chapter cf. Plat. " | + | |
- | See above, " | + | See above, " |
(2) Lit. " | (2) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | private libraries see Becker, " |
(3) See " | (3) See " | ||
Line 2775: | Line 2775: | ||
(6) L. and S. cf. Plat. " | (6) L. and S. cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | him out." |
(7) Cf. Plat. " | (7) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | his wisdom by the light of nature, but to have associated with |
- | several of the philosophers" | + | |
On a subsequent occasion, Euthydemus being present, though, as was plain to see, somewhat disposed to withdraw from the friendly concourse, (8) as if he would choose anything rather than appear to admire Socrates on the score of wisdom, the latter made the following remarks. | On a subsequent occasion, Euthydemus being present, though, as was plain to see, somewhat disposed to withdraw from the friendly concourse, (8) as if he would choose anything rather than appear to admire Socrates on the score of wisdom, the latter made the following remarks. | ||
Line 2788: | Line 2788: | ||
(9) Or, "the pretty exordium... now in course of composition. He | (9) Or, "the pretty exordium... now in course of composition. He | ||
- | | + | must at all hazards avoid the suspicion of having picked up any |
- | crumb of learning from anybody; how can he help therefore | + | crumb of learning from anybody; how can he help therefore |
- | beginning his speech thus?" | + | |
(10) Or, " | (10) Or, " | ||
(11) Al. "Just as if one seeking the office of state physician were to | (11) Al. "Just as if one seeking the office of state physician were to | ||
- | | + | begin with a like exordium." |
- | (with what has gone before)." | + | (with what has gone before)." |
(12) Schneider cf. Plat. " | (12) Schneider cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | "the parish doctor," |
Presently, when it became apparent that Euthydemus had got so far that he was disposed to pay attention to what was said, though he was still at pains not to utter a sound himself, as if he hoped by silence to attach to himself some reputation for sagacity, Socrates, wishing to cure him of that defect, proceeded. | Presently, when it became apparent that Euthydemus had got so far that he was disposed to pay attention to what was said, though he was still at pains not to utter a sound himself, as if he hoped by silence to attach to himself some reputation for sagacity, Socrates, wishing to cure him of that defect, proceeded. | ||
Line 2806: | Line 2806: | ||
(13) Or, more lit. " | (13) Or, more lit. " | ||
- | | + | politics." |
Such were the topics on which Socrates was wont in the early days of their association to dilate in the hearing of Euthydemus; but when the philosopher perceived that the youth not only could tolerate the turns of the discussion more readily but was now become a somewhat eager listener, he went to the saddler' | Such were the topics on which Socrates was wont in the early days of their association to dilate in the hearing of Euthydemus; but when the philosopher perceived that the youth not only could tolerate the turns of the discussion more readily but was now become a somewhat eager listener, he went to the saddler' | ||
(14) The question arises: how far is the conversation historical or | (14) The question arises: how far is the conversation historical or | ||
- | | + | imaginary? |
Soc. Pray tell me, Euthydemus, is it really true what people tell me, that you have made a large collection of the writings of "the wise," as they are called? (15) | Soc. Pray tell me, Euthydemus, is it really true what people tell me, that you have made a large collection of the writings of "the wise," as they are called? (15) | ||
(15) Or, "have collected several works of our classical authors and | (15) Or, "have collected several works of our classical authors and | ||
- | | + | philosophers." |
Euthydemus answered: Quite true, Socrates, and I mean to go on collecting until I possess all the books I can possibly lay hold of. | Euthydemus answered: Quite true, Socrates, and I mean to go on collecting until I possess all the books I can possibly lay hold of. | ||
Line 2837: | Line 2837: | ||
(18) Or, "To be that implies a considerable store of well-packed | (18) Or, "To be that implies a considerable store of well-packed | ||
- | | + | wisdom." |
I have no such ambition (he replied). | I have no such ambition (he replied). | ||
Line 2844: | Line 2844: | ||
(19) Of Cyrene (cf. Plat. " | (19) Of Cyrene (cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | 19. |
Euth. No, nor yet a mathematician. | Euth. No, nor yet a mathematician. | ||
Line 2859: | Line 2859: | ||
(23) Or, "are simply perfect in the art of reciting epic poetry, but | (23) Or, "are simply perfect in the art of reciting epic poetry, but | ||
- | | + | are apt to be the veriest simpletons themselves." |
At last Socrates said: Can it be, Euthydemus, that you are an aspirant to that excellence through which men become statesmen and administrators fit to rule and apt to benefit (24) the rest of the world and themselves? | At last Socrates said: Can it be, Euthydemus, that you are an aspirant to that excellence through which men become statesmen and administrators fit to rule and apt to benefit (24) the rest of the world and themselves? | ||
| | ||
- | | + | the rest of the world and themselves." |
Yes (replied he), that is the excellence I desire—beyond measure. | Yes (replied he), that is the excellence I desire—beyond measure. | ||
Line 2871: | Line 2871: | ||
(25) Just, {dikaios} = upright, righteous. Justice, {dikaiosune} = | (25) Just, {dikaios} = upright, righteous. Justice, {dikaiosune} = | ||
- | | + | social uprightness = righteousness, |
- | Greek {dikaios} combines the active dealing out of justice with | + | Greek {dikaios} combines the active dealing out of justice with |
- | the self-reflective idea of preserving justice in our conduct, | + | the self-reflective idea of preserving justice in our conduct, |
- | which is what we mean by ' | + | which is what we mean by ' |
Euth. Certainly I have, and I say that without justice and uprightness it is impossible to be a good citizen. | Euth. Certainly I have, and I say that without justice and uprightness it is impossible to be a good citizen. | ||
Line 2893: | Line 2893: | ||
(26) The letter R (to stand for Right, Righteous, Upright, Just). The | (26) The letter R (to stand for Right, Righteous, Upright, Just). The | ||
- | | + | letter W (to stand for Wrong, Unrighteous, |
By all means do so (he answered), if you think that it assists matters. | By all means do so (he answered), if you think that it assists matters. | ||
Line 2924: | Line 2924: | ||
(28) Or, "the kidnapping of men into slavery." | (28) Or, "the kidnapping of men into slavery." | ||
- | | + | the reduction of a free-born man to a state of slavery. Slavery |
- | itself ({douleia}) being regarded as the normal condition of a | + | |
- | certain portion of the human race and not in itself immoral. | + | |
Euth. That too. | Euth. That too. | ||
Line 2985: | Line 2985: | ||
(32) Or, "all my original positions seem to me now other than I first | (32) Or, "all my original positions seem to me now other than I first | ||
- | | + | conceived them"; or, " |
- | twisted topsy-turvy." | + | |
Soc. And is it your opinion that there is a lore and science of Right and Justice just as there is of letters and grammar? (33) | Soc. And is it your opinion that there is a lore and science of Right and Justice just as there is of letters and grammar? (33) | ||
(33) {mathesis kai episteme tou dikaiou}—a doctrine and a knowledge | (33) {mathesis kai episteme tou dikaiou}—a doctrine and a knowledge | ||
- | | + | of the Just. |
Euth. That is my opinion. | Euth. That is my opinion. | ||
Line 3004: | Line 3004: | ||
(35) Or, "In fact, he who sins against the lore of grammer | (35) Or, "In fact, he who sins against the lore of grammer | ||
- | | + | intentionally may be a good grammarian and a man of letters, but |
- | he who does so involuntarily is illiterate and a bad grammarian?" | + | he who does so involuntarily is illiterate and a bad grammarian?" |
Euth. True, he must be. I do not see how to escape from that conclusion. | Euth. True, he must be. I do not see how to escape from that conclusion. | ||
Line 3012: | Line 3012: | ||
(36) Or, Soc. And does he who lies and deceives with intent know what | (36) Or, Soc. And does he who lies and deceives with intent know what | ||
- | | + | is right rather than he who does either or both unconsciously? |
- | | + | Euth. Clearly he does. |
Euth. The intentional and conscious liar clearly. | Euth. The intentional and conscious liar clearly. | ||
Line 3021: | Line 3021: | ||
| | ||
- | | + | {episteme} of grammar is more grammatical than he who has no such |
- | {episteme}? | + | |
- | | + | Euth. Yes. |
- | | + | Soc. And he who has the {episteme} of things rightful is more |
- | righteous than he who lacks the {episteme}? See Plat. " | + | righteous than he who lacks the {episteme}? See Plat. " |
- | min."; Arist. "Eth. Eud." VI. v. 7. | + | min."; Arist. "Eth. Eud." VI. v. 7. |
Euth. Yes. | Euth. Yes. | ||
Line 3037: | Line 3037: | ||
(38) Lit. " | (38) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | heaven knows how." See Jowett, " |
Soc. Well (look at it like this). Suppose a man to be anxious to speak the truth, but he is never able to hold the same language about a thing for two minutes together. First he says: "The road is towards the east," and then he says, "No, it's towards the west"; or, running up a column of figures, now he makes the product this, and again he makes it that, now more, now less—what do you think of such a man? | Soc. Well (look at it like this). Suppose a man to be anxious to speak the truth, but he is never able to hold the same language about a thing for two minutes together. First he says: "The road is towards the east," and then he says, "No, it's towards the west"; or, running up a column of figures, now he makes the product this, and again he makes it that, now more, now less—what do you think of such a man? | ||
Line 3046: | Line 3046: | ||
(39) {andropododeis}, | (39) {andropododeis}, | ||
- | | + | a low order of intellect, cf. " |
- | (" | + | (" |
- | moral rather than intellectual deficiency, I suppose. Hence it is | + | moral rather than intellectual deficiency, I suppose. Hence it is |
- | impossible to preserve the humour of the Socratic argument. See | + | |
- | Newman, op. cit. i. 107. | + | |
Euth. I do. | Euth. I do. | ||
Line 3081: | Line 3081: | ||
(41) {tes kalokagathias}, | (41) {tes kalokagathias}, | ||
- | | + | nobility of soul. Cf. above, I. vi. 14. |
Thereupon Socrates: Tell me, Euthydemus, have you ever been to Delphi? | Thereupon Socrates: Tell me, Euthydemus, have you ever been to Delphi? | ||
Line 3106: | Line 3106: | ||
(43) Reading, {dia panta tauta}, or if {dia tauta}, translate "and | (43) Reading, {dia panta tauta}, or if {dia tauta}, translate "and | ||
- | | + | therefore." |
What is true of individuals is true also of communities. (44) That state which in ignorance of its power goes to war with a stronger than itself ends by being uprooted or else reduced to slavery. | What is true of individuals is true also of communities. (44) That state which in ignorance of its power goes to war with a stronger than itself ends by being uprooted or else reduced to slavery. | ||
(44) Or, more lit. "A law which applies, you will observe, to bodies | (44) Or, more lit. "A law which applies, you will observe, to bodies | ||
- | | + | politic." |
Thereupon Euthydemus: Be assured I fully concur in your opinion; the precept KNOW THYSELF cannot be too highly valued; but what is the application? | Thereupon Euthydemus: Be assured I fully concur in your opinion; the precept KNOW THYSELF cannot be too highly valued; but what is the application? | ||
(45) Or, "at what point to commence the process of self-inspection? | (45) Or, "at what point to commence the process of self-inspection? | ||
- | | + | there is the mystery. I look to you, if you are willing, to |
- | interpret it." | + | |
Well (replied Socrates), I presume you know quite well the distinction between good and bad things: your knowledge may be relied upon so far? | Well (replied Socrates), I presume you know quite well the distinction between good and bad things: your knowledge may be relied upon so far? | ||
Line 3148: | Line 3148: | ||
(49) See Ovid. " | (49) See Ovid. " | ||
- | | + | 40; Diod. Sic. iv. 79; Paus. vii. 4. 6. |
Yes, I know the old story (he answered). (50) | Yes, I know the old story (he answered). (50) | ||
Line 3213: | Line 3213: | ||
(58) Al. "who cannot contribute their necessary quota to the taxes | (58) Al. "who cannot contribute their necessary quota to the taxes | ||
- | | + | (according to the census)." |
Soc. Have you noticed that some who possess a mere pittance not only find this sufficient, but actually succeed in getting a surplus out of it; while others do not find a large fortune large enough? | Soc. Have you noticed that some who possess a mere pittance not only find this sufficient, but actually succeed in getting a surplus out of it; while others do not find a large fortune large enough? | ||
Line 3226: | Line 3226: | ||
(59) Or, "as people of dull intelligence and sluggish temperament." | (59) Or, "as people of dull intelligence and sluggish temperament." | ||
- | | + | Cf. Plat. " |
It may be inferred that Socrates was in no hurry for those who were with him to discover capacities for speech and action or as inventive geniuses, (1) without at any rate a well-laid foundation of self-control. (2) For those who possessed such abilities without these same saving virtues would, he believed, only become worse men with greater power for mischief. His first object was to instil into those who were with him a wise spirit in their relation to the gods. (3) That such was the tenor of his conversation in dealing with men may be seen from the narratives of others who were present on some particular occasion. (4) I confine myself to a particular discussion with Euthydemus at which I was present. | It may be inferred that Socrates was in no hurry for those who were with him to discover capacities for speech and action or as inventive geniuses, (1) without at any rate a well-laid foundation of self-control. (2) For those who possessed such abilities without these same saving virtues would, he believed, only become worse men with greater power for mischief. His first object was to instil into those who were with him a wise spirit in their relation to the gods. (3) That such was the tenor of his conversation in dealing with men may be seen from the narratives of others who were present on some particular occasion. (4) I confine myself to a particular discussion with Euthydemus at which I was present. | ||
(1) Or, "as speakers" | (1) Or, "as speakers" | ||
- | | + | ch. v. below), "or as masters of invention" |
(2) Or, "but as prior to those excellences must be engrafted in them | (2) Or, "but as prior to those excellences must be engrafted in them | ||
- | | + | {sophrosune} (the virtues of temperance and sanity of soul)." |
(3) Lit. "His first object and endeavour was to make those who were | (3) Lit. "His first object and endeavour was to make those who were | ||
- | | + | with him {sophronas} (sound of soul) as regards the gods." |
(4) Reading after Herbst, Cobet, etc., {diegountai}, | (4) Reading after Herbst, Cobet, etc., {diegountai}, | ||
- | | + | {diegounto}, |
- | his lifetime by the other witnesses." | + | his lifetime by the other witnesses." |
- | cit. pp. 15, 23; above, " | + | cit. pp. 15, 23; above, " |
Socrates said: (5) Tell me, Euthydemus, has it ever struck you to observe what tender pains the gods have taken to furnish man with all his needs? | Socrates said: (5) Tell me, Euthydemus, has it ever struck you to observe what tender pains the gods have taken to furnish man with all his needs? | ||
(5) For the subject matter of this " | (5) For the subject matter of this " | ||
- | | + | I. iv.; K. Joel, op. cit. Appendix, p. 547 foll. in ref. to |
- | Dummler' | + | |
Euth. No indeed, I cannot say that it has ever struck me. | Euth. No indeed, I cannot say that it has ever struck me. | ||
Line 3265: | Line 3265: | ||
(7) e.g. for temple orientation see Dr. Penrose quoted by Norman | (7) e.g. for temple orientation see Dr. Penrose quoted by Norman | ||
- | | + | Lockyer, " |
It is so (he answered). | It is so (he answered). | ||
Line 3282: | Line 3282: | ||
(10) Cf. Plat. " | (10) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | of a beneficient regard for man." |
Soc. Well, and what of another priceless gift, that of water, which conspires with earth and the seasons to give both birth and increase to all things useful to us; nay, which helps to nurture our very selves, and commingling with all that feeds us, renders it more digestible, more wholesome, and more pleasant to the taste; and mark you in proportion to the abundance of our need the superabundance of its supply. What say you concerning such a boon? | Soc. Well, and what of another priceless gift, that of water, which conspires with earth and the seasons to give both birth and increase to all things useful to us; nay, which helps to nurture our very selves, and commingling with all that feeds us, renders it more digestible, more wholesome, and more pleasant to the taste; and mark you in proportion to the abundance of our need the superabundance of its supply. What say you concerning such a boon? | ||
Line 3291: | Line 3291: | ||
(11) Lit. "and then the fact that they made provision for us of even | (11) Lit. "and then the fact that they made provision for us of even | ||
- | | + | fire"; the credit of this boon, according to Hesiod, being due to |
- | Prometheus. | + | |
(12) Or, "no life-aiding appliance worthy of the name." | (12) Or, "no life-aiding appliance worthy of the name." | ||
Line 3299: | Line 3299: | ||
(13) Or, "Yes, that may be called an extreme instance of the divine | (13) Or, "Yes, that may be called an extreme instance of the divine | ||
- | | + | ' |
Soc. Again, consider the motions of the Sun, (14) how when he has turned him about in winter (15) he again draws nigh to us, ripening some fruits, and causing others whose time is past to dry up; how when he has fulfilled his work he comes no closer, but turns away as if in fear to scorch us to our hurt unduly; and again, when he has reached a point where if he should prolong his retreat we should plainly be frozen to death with cold, note how he turns him about and resumes his approach, traversing that region of the heavens where he may shed his genial influence best upon us. | Soc. Again, consider the motions of the Sun, (14) how when he has turned him about in winter (15) he again draws nigh to us, ripening some fruits, and causing others whose time is past to dry up; how when he has fulfilled his work he comes no closer, but turns away as if in fear to scorch us to our hurt unduly; and again, when he has reached a point where if he should prolong his retreat we should plainly be frozen to death with cold, note how he turns him about and resumes his approach, traversing that region of the heavens where he may shed his genial influence best upon us. | ||
(14) A single MS. inserts a passage {to de kai era... | (14) A single MS. inserts a passage {to de kai era... | ||
- | | + | ' |
(15) i.e. as we say, "after the winter solstice." | (15) i.e. as we say, "after the winter solstice." | ||
Line 3313: | Line 3313: | ||
(16) Or, "note the gradual approach and gradual recession of the sun- | (16) Or, "note the gradual approach and gradual recession of the sun- | ||
- | | + | god, so gradual that we reach either extreme in a manner |
- | imperceptibly, | + | |
For my part (he replied), the question forces itself upon my mind, whether the gods have any other occupation save only to minister to man; and I am only hindered from saying so, because the rest of animals would seem to share these benefits along with man. | For my part (he replied), the question forces itself upon my mind, whether the gods have any other occupation save only to minister to man; and I am only hindered from saying so, because the rest of animals would seem to share these benefits along with man. | ||
Line 3325: | Line 3325: | ||
(17) Or, " | (17) Or, " | ||
- | | + | serviceable to man, and yet how unlike they are to one another, |
- | the fact that man has been endowed with senses adapted to each | + | the fact that man has been endowed with senses adapted to each |
- | class of things, and so has access to a world of happiness." | + | class of things, and so has access to a world of happiness." |
(18) Cf. Aristot. " | (18) Cf. Aristot. " | ||
Line 3338: | Line 3338: | ||
(19) See above, I. iv. 14, for a parallel to the train of thought on | (19) See above, I. iv. 14, for a parallel to the train of thought on | ||
- | | + | the part of Aristodemus "the little," |
- | Socrates' | + | |
Soc. Yes, and you will discover for yourself the truth of what I say, if, without waiting to behold the outward and visible forms (20) of the gods themselves, you will be content to behold their works; and with these before you, to worship and honour the Divine authors of them. (21) I would have you reflect that the very gods themselves suggest this teaching. (22) Not one of these but gives us freely of his blessings; yet they do not step from behind their veil in order to grant one single boon. (23) And pre-eminently He who orders and holds together the universe, (24) in which are all things beautiful and good; (25) who fashions and refashions it to never-ending use unworn, keeping it free from sickness or decay, (26) so that swifter than thought it ministers to his will unerringly—this God is seen to perform the mightiest operations, but in the actual administration of the same abides himself invisible to mortal ken. Reflect further, this Sun above our heads, so visible to all—as we suppose—will not suffer man to regard him too narrowly, but should any essay to watch him with a shameless stare he will snatch away their power of vision. And if the gods themselves are thus unseen, so too shall you find their ministers to be hidden also; from the height of heaven above the thunderbolt is plainly hurled, and triumphs over all that it encounters, yet it is all-invisible, | Soc. Yes, and you will discover for yourself the truth of what I say, if, without waiting to behold the outward and visible forms (20) of the gods themselves, you will be content to behold their works; and with these before you, to worship and honour the Divine authors of them. (21) I would have you reflect that the very gods themselves suggest this teaching. (22) Not one of these but gives us freely of his blessings; yet they do not step from behind their veil in order to grant one single boon. (23) And pre-eminently He who orders and holds together the universe, (24) in which are all things beautiful and good; (25) who fashions and refashions it to never-ending use unworn, keeping it free from sickness or decay, (26) so that swifter than thought it ministers to his will unerringly—this God is seen to perform the mightiest operations, but in the actual administration of the same abides himself invisible to mortal ken. Reflect further, this Sun above our heads, so visible to all—as we suppose—will not suffer man to regard him too narrowly, but should any essay to watch him with a shameless stare he will snatch away their power of vision. And if the gods themselves are thus unseen, so too shall you find their ministers to be hidden also; from the height of heaven above the thunderbolt is plainly hurled, and triumphs over all that it encounters, yet it is all-invisible, | ||
Line 3346: | Line 3346: | ||
(21) See L. Dindorf ad loc. (ed. Ox. 1862), {theous}; G. Sauppe, vol. | (21) See L. Dindorf ad loc. (ed. Ox. 1862), {theous}; G. Sauppe, vol. | ||
- | | + | iii. "An. crit." p. xxix; R. Kuhner; C. Schenkl. |
(22) i.e. "that man must walk by faith." | (22) i.e. "that man must walk by faith." | ||
- | | + | " |
(23) Schneid. cf. Plat. " | (23) Schneid. cf. Plat. " | ||
Line 3366: | Line 3366: | ||
(28) Or, "and that law, I presume, is universal which says, Let a | (28) Or, "and that law, I presume, is universal which says, Let a | ||
- | | + | man," etc.; and for the maxim see above; " |
By such words—and conduct corresponding to his words—did Socrates mould and fashion the hearts of his companions, making them at once more devout and more virtuous. (29) | By such words—and conduct corresponding to his words—did Socrates mould and fashion the hearts of his companions, making them at once more devout and more virtuous. (29) | ||
Line 3375: | Line 3375: | ||
(1) L. Dindorf suspects | (1) L. Dindorf suspects | ||
- | | + | Lips. 1872. See also Praef. to Ox. ed. p. viii. |
(2) Or, "by his conduct to all, which was not merely innocent in the | (2) Or, "by his conduct to all, which was not merely innocent in the | ||
- | | + | eye of law and custom but positively helpful." |
(3) See above, I. i. 18; " | (3) See above, I. i. 18; " | ||
- | | + | 272. |
(4) See above, I. ii. 35. | (4) See above, I. ii. 35. | ||
(5) Leon of Salamis. See " | (5) Leon of Salamis. See " | ||
- | | + | Andoc. "de Myst." 46. |
(6) See above, I. i. 1; Plat. " | (6) See above, I. i. 1; Plat. " | ||
(7) Kuhner cf. Quintil. VI. i. 7: " | (7) Kuhner cf. Quintil. VI. i. 7: " | ||
- | | + | |
(8) See Grote, "H. G." viii. p. 663 foll. | (8) See Grote, "H. G." viii. p. 663 foll. | ||
Line 3398: | Line 3398: | ||
(9) For this famous person see Cob. "Pros. Xen." s.n.; Plat. "Hipp. | (9) For this famous person see Cob. "Pros. Xen." s.n.; Plat. "Hipp. | ||
- | | + | maj." 148; Quint. xii. 11, 21; Grote, "H. G." viii. 524. |
(10) Or, "I can personally vouch for." | (10) Or, "I can personally vouch for." | ||
Line 3405: | Line 3405: | ||
(11) L. Dindorf, after Ruhnken and Valckenar, omits this sentence | (11) L. Dindorf, after Ruhnken and Valckenar, omits this sentence | ||
- | | + | {phasi de tines... didaxonton}. See Kuhner ad loc. For the |
- | sentiment see Plat. " | + | |
(12) Cf. " | (12) Cf. " | ||
- | | + | " |
Hippias, catching the words, exclaimed in a bantering tone: What! still repeating the same old talk, (13) Socrates, which I used to hear from you long ago? | Hippias, catching the words, exclaimed in a bantering tone: What! still repeating the same old talk, (13) Socrates, which I used to hear from you long ago? | ||
(13) This tale is repeated by Dio Chrys. " | (13) This tale is repeated by Dio Chrys. " | ||
- | | + | " |
Yes (answered Socrates), and what is still more strange, Hippias, it is not only the same old talk but about the same old subjects. Now you, I daresay, through versatility of knowledge, (14) never say the same thing twice over on the same subject? | Yes (answered Socrates), and what is still more strange, Hippias, it is not only the same old talk but about the same old subjects. Now you, I daresay, through versatility of knowledge, (14) never say the same thing twice over on the same subject? | ||
(14) Or, "such is the breadth of your learning," | (14) Or, "such is the breadth of your learning," | ||
- | | + | Plat. "Hipp. maj." |
To be sure (he answered), my endeavour is to say something new on all occasions. | To be sure (he answered), my endeavour is to say something new on all occasions. | ||
Line 3430: | Line 3430: | ||
(16) Or, "on the topic of the just I have something to say at present | (16) Or, "on the topic of the just I have something to say at present | ||
- | | + | which," |
By Hera! (17) (he exclaimed), what a blessing to have discovered! (18) Now we shall have no more divisions of opinion on points of right and wrong; judges will vote unanimously; | By Hera! (17) (he exclaimed), what a blessing to have discovered! (18) Now we shall have no more divisions of opinion on points of right and wrong; judges will vote unanimously; | ||
Line 3437: | Line 3437: | ||
(18) Or, "what a panacea are you the inventor of"; lit. "By Hera, you | (18) Or, "what a panacea are you the inventor of"; lit. "By Hera, you | ||
- | | + | have indeed discovered a mighty blessing, if juries are to cease |
- | recording their verdicts ' | + | |
- | their wranglings on points of justice, their litigations, | + | their wranglings on points of justice, their litigations, |
- | their party strifes; if states are to cease differing on matters | + | their party strifes; if states are to cease differing on matters |
- | of right and wrong and appealing to the arbitrament of war." | + | of right and wrong and appealing to the arbitrament of war." |
You shall hear all in good time (Hippias answered), but not until you make a plain statement of your own belief. What is justice? We have had enough of your ridiculing all the rest of the world, questioning and cross-examining first one and then the other, but never a bit will you render an account to any one yourself or state a plain opinion upon a single topic. (19) | You shall hear all in good time (Hippias answered), but not until you make a plain statement of your own belief. What is justice? We have had enough of your ridiculing all the rest of the world, questioning and cross-examining first one and then the other, but never a bit will you render an account to any one yourself or state a plain opinion upon a single topic. (19) | ||
Line 3456: | Line 3456: | ||
(21) Or, "is of greater evidential value," | (21) Or, "is of greater evidential value," | ||
- | | + | est verbis?" |
Worth far more, I should say (Hippias answered), for many a man with justice and right on his lips commits injustice and wrong, but no doer of right ever was a misdoer or could possibly be. | Worth far more, I should say (Hippias answered), for many a man with justice and right on his lips commits injustice and wrong, but no doer of right ever was a misdoer or could possibly be. | ||
Line 3467: | Line 3467: | ||
(22) Or, "is not abstinence from wrongdoing synonymous with righteous | (22) Or, "is not abstinence from wrongdoing synonymous with righteous | ||
- | | + | behaviour?" |
Hipp. Now you are caught, Socrates, plainly trying to escape from a plain statement. When asked what you believe justice to be, you keep telling us not what the just man does, but what he does not do. | Hipp. Now you are caught, Socrates, plainly trying to escape from a plain statement. When asked what you believe justice to be, you keep telling us not what the just man does, but what he does not do. | ||
Line 3522: | Line 3522: | ||
(27) Cf. " | (27) Cf. " | ||
- | | + | "u Leocr." |
And if we turn to private life, what better protection can a man have than obedience to the laws? This shall be his safeguard against penalties, his guarantee of honours at the hands of the community; it shall be a clue to thread his way through the mazes of the law courts unbewildered, | And if we turn to private life, what better protection can a man have than obedience to the laws? This shall be his safeguard against penalties, his guarantee of honours at the hands of the community; it shall be a clue to thread his way through the mazes of the law courts unbewildered, | ||
Line 3531: | Line 3531: | ||
(30) Lit. "From whom may the doer of a deed of kindness more | (30) Lit. "From whom may the doer of a deed of kindness more | ||
- | | + | confidently expect the recompense of gratitude than from your |
- | lover of the law? and whom would one select as the recipient of | + | lover of the law? and whom would one select as the recipient of |
- | kindness rather than a man susceptible of gratitude?" | + | |
And now, Hippias, I have done my part; that is my proof and demonstration that the " | And now, Hippias, I have done my part; that is my proof and demonstration that the " | ||
(31) For the style of this enconium (of the {nomimos}) cf. " | (31) For the style of this enconium (of the {nomimos}) cf. " | ||
- | | + | 36; and for the " |
Then Hippias: Nay, upon my soul, Socrates, I am not aware of holding any contrary opinion to what you have uttered on the theme of justice. (32) | Then Hippias: Nay, upon my soul, Socrates, I am not aware of holding any contrary opinion to what you have uttered on the theme of justice. (32) | ||
Line 3547: | Line 3547: | ||
(33) See Soph. " | (33) See Soph. " | ||
- | | + | "de Cor." 317, 23; Aristot. " |
Yes (he answered), those held in every part of the world, and in the same sense. | Yes (he answered), those held in every part of the world, and in the same sense. | ||
Line 3556: | Line 3556: | ||
(34) Or, "there would be difficulty of understanding each other, and a | (34) Or, "there would be difficulty of understanding each other, and a | ||
- | | + | babel of tongues." |
Soc. Whom then do you believe to have been the makers of these laws. | Soc. Whom then do you believe to have been the makers of these laws. | ||
Line 3575: | Line 3575: | ||
(35) Or, "as I perceive, it is not of universal application, | (35) Or, "as I perceive, it is not of universal application, | ||
- | | + | transgress it." |
Soc. Well, but there are a good many other things which people do contrary to law; only the penalty, I take it, affixed to the transgression of the divine code is certain; there is no escape for the offender after the manner in which a man may transgress the laws of man with impunity, slipping through the fingers of justice by stealth, or avoiding it by violence. | Soc. Well, but there are a good many other things which people do contrary to law; only the penalty, I take it, affixed to the transgression of the divine code is certain; there is no escape for the offender after the manner in which a man may transgress the laws of man with impunity, slipping through the fingers of justice by stealth, or avoiding it by violence. | ||
Line 3584: | Line 3584: | ||
(36) Or, "in the propagation of the species than to produce | (36) Or, "in the propagation of the species than to produce | ||
- | | + | misbegotten children." |
Hipp. But how or why should they breed them ill where nothing hinders them, being of a good stock themselves and producing from stock as good? | Hipp. But how or why should they breed them ill where nothing hinders them, being of a good stock themselves and producing from stock as good? | ||
Line 3591: | Line 3591: | ||
(37) Cf. Plat. " | (37) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | Jure," ii. 5, xii. 4. |
Hipp. No, it is reasonable to expect that the seed will differ. | Hipp. No, it is reasonable to expect that the seed will differ. | ||
Line 3624: | Line 3624: | ||
(38) Lit. "Yes, upon my word, Socrates, all these cases look very like | (38) Lit. "Yes, upon my word, Socrates, all these cases look very like | ||
- | | + | (would seem to point to) the gods." |
Soc. And in your opinion, Hippias, is the legislation of the gods just and righteous, or the reverse of what is just and righteous? | Soc. And in your opinion, Hippias, is the legislation of the gods just and righteous, or the reverse of what is just and righteous? | ||
Line 3633: | Line 3633: | ||
(39) Or, "it is well pleasing also to the gods that what is lawful is | (39) Or, "it is well pleasing also to the gods that what is lawful is | ||
- | | + | just and what is just is lawful." |
By such language and by such conduct, through example and precept alike, he helped to make those who approached him more upright and more just. | By such language and by such conduct, through example and precept alike, he helped to make those who approached him more upright and more just. | ||
Line 3642: | Line 3642: | ||
(2) "If any one might claim to be a prince of ascetics, it was | (2) "If any one might claim to be a prince of ascetics, it was | ||
- | | + | Socrates; such was the ineffaceable impression left on the minds |
- | of his associates." | + | of his associates." |
(3) Or, "he stimulated in these same companions a spirit of self- | (3) Or, "he stimulated in these same companions a spirit of self- | ||
- | | + | restraint beyond all else." |
(4) Or, "which I can vouch for." | (4) Or, "which I can vouch for." | ||
Line 3695: | Line 3695: | ||
(8) "And if this be so concerning wisdom, {sophia}, what of | (8) "And if this be so concerning wisdom, {sophia}, what of | ||
- | | + | {sophrasune}, |
That too, I admit (he answered). | That too, I admit (he answered). | ||
Line 3702: | Line 3702: | ||
(9) Or add, "If this be so concerning not wisdom only, but concerning | (9) Or add, "If this be so concerning not wisdom only, but concerning | ||
- | | + | temperance and soundness of soul, what," etc. |
Nothing that I can think of (he replied). | Nothing that I can think of (he replied). | ||
Line 3737: | Line 3737: | ||
(12) Or, "from tasting to any extent worth speaking of the most | (12) Or, "from tasting to any extent worth speaking of the most | ||
- | | + | necessary and all-pervading sources of happiness." |
You speak the words of truth (13) (he answered). | You speak the words of truth (13) (he answered). | ||
(13) Lit. "What you say is absolutely and entirely true" (the "vraie | (13) Lit. "What you say is absolutely and entirely true" (the "vraie | ||
- | | + | verite" |
Soc. Furthermore, | Soc. Furthermore, | ||
(14) Or, "But indeed, if there be joy in the pursuit of any noble | (14) Or, "But indeed, if there be joy in the pursuit of any noble | ||
- | | + | study or of such accomplishments as shall enable," |
(15) Or, "of the highest pleasures." | (15) Or, "of the highest pleasures." | ||
Line 3758: | Line 3758: | ||
(17) i.e. he becomes an animal " | (17) i.e. he becomes an animal " | ||
- | | + | brain." |
(18) Or, " | (18) Or, " | ||
- | | + | Plat. " |
(19) Or, "draws nearer to happiness and perfection, and is most | (19) Or, "draws nearer to happiness and perfection, and is most | ||
- | | + | capable of truth-disclosing conversation." |
- | "What would not a man give, O judges, to be able to examine the | + | "What would not a man give, O judges, to be able to examine the |
- | leaders of the great Trojan expedition, or Odysseus, or Sisyphus, | + | |
- | or numberless others, men and women too! What infinite delight | + | or numberless others, men and women too! What infinite delight |
- | would there be in conversing with them and asking them questions!" | + | would there be in conversing with them and asking them questions!" |
- | (Jowett). | + | |
(20) For {dialegein kata gene} = {dialegesthai}, | (20) For {dialegein kata gene} = {dialegesthai}, | ||
- | | + | viii. 590. |
(21) Cf. Plat. " | (21) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | "Statesm." | + | Statesm." |
At this point I will endeavour to explain in what way Socrates fostered this greater " | At this point I will endeavour to explain in what way Socrates fostered this greater " | ||
(1) Lit. " | (1) Lit. " | ||
- | | + | dialectic." |
(2) Or, " | (2) Or, " | ||
- | | + | anything would be able to let others into his secret; but, failing |
- | that knowledge, he thought the best of men would be but blind | + | that knowledge, he thought the best of men would be but blind |
- | leaders of the blind, stumbling themselves and causing others to | + | |
- | stumble also." | + | |
(3) Or add, "' | (3) Or add, "' | ||
- | | + | —such was the ever-recurrent question for which he sought an |
- | answer." | + | |
Tell me (said he), Euthydemus, what sort of thing you take piety to be? | Tell me (said he), Euthydemus, what sort of thing you take piety to be? | ||
Line 3801: | Line 3801: | ||
(5) Or, "can you give me a definition of the pious man?"; "tell me who | (5) Or, "can you give me a definition of the pious man?"; "tell me who | ||
- | | + | and what the pious man is." |
I should say (he answered) he is a man who honours the gods. | I should say (he answered) he is a man who honours the gods. | ||
Line 3816: | Line 3816: | ||
(6) i.e. "his practice must square with his knowledge and be the | (6) i.e. "his practice must square with his knowledge and be the | ||
- | | + | outward expression of his belief?" |
Euth. That is so. (7) | Euth. That is so. (7) | ||
(7) "That is so; you rightly describe his frame of mind and | (7) "That is so; you rightly describe his frame of mind and | ||
- | | + | persuasion." |
Soc. And does any man honour the gods otherwise than he thinks he ought? (8) | Soc. And does any man honour the gods otherwise than he thinks he ought? (8) | ||
Line 3832: | Line 3832: | ||
(9) Or, "he who knows what is lawful with regard to Heaven pays honour | (9) Or, "he who knows what is lawful with regard to Heaven pays honour | ||
- | | + | to Heaven lawfully." |
Euth. Certainly. | Euth. Certainly. | ||
Line 3851: | Line 3851: | ||
(11) "I accept it at any rate as mine." N.B.—in reference to this | (11) "I accept it at any rate as mine." N.B.—in reference to this | ||
- | | + | definition of Piety, the question is never raised {poion ti esti |
- | nomos}; nor yet {poioi tines eisin oi theoi}; but clearly there is | + | |
- | a growth in {ta nomima}. Cf. the conversation recorded in St. John | + | a growth in {ta nomima}. Cf. the conversation recorded in St. John |
- | iv. 7 foll., and the words (verse 23) {pneuma o Theos kai tous | + | iv. 7 foll., and the words (verse 23) {pneuma o Theos kai tous |
- | proskunountas auton en pneumati kai aletheia dei proskunein}, | + | |
- | which the philosopher Socrates would perhaps readily have assented | + | which the philosopher Socrates would perhaps readily have assented |
- | to. | + | to. |
Soc. But now, with regard to human beings; is it allowable to deal with men in any way one pleases? (12) | Soc. But now, with regard to human beings; is it allowable to deal with men in any way one pleases? (12) | ||
(12) Or, "may a man deal with his fellow-men arbitrarily according to | (12) Or, "may a man deal with his fellow-men arbitrarily according to | ||
- | | + | his fancy?" |
Euth. No; with regard to men also, he will be a law-observing man (13) who knows what things are lawful as concerning men, in accordance with which our dealings with one another must be conducted. (14) | Euth. No; with regard to men also, he will be a law-observing man (13) who knows what things are lawful as concerning men, in accordance with which our dealings with one another must be conducted. (14) | ||
(13) Or, "he is a man full of the law (lawful) and law-abiding who | (13) Or, "he is a man full of the law (lawful) and law-abiding who | ||
- | | + | knows," |
(14) Reading {kath' a dei pros allelous khresthai}, subaud. | (14) Reading {kath' a dei pros allelous khresthai}, subaud. | ||
- | | + | {allelois}, or if vulg. {kath' a dei pos allelois khresthai}, |
- | translate "must be specifically conducted." | + | |
Soc. Then those who deal with one another in this way, deal with each other as they ought? (15) | Soc. Then those who deal with one another in this way, deal with each other as they ought? (15) | ||
Line 3904: | Line 3904: | ||
(17) This proposition, | (17) This proposition, | ||
- | | + | being the middle term of the double syllogism (A and B)— |
- | | + | A. Those who do what the law demands concerning men do what is |
- | just and right. | + | just and right. |
- | | + | Those who do what is just and right are righteous and just. |
- | | + | Ergo—Those who do what the law demands concerning men are |
- | righteous and just. | + | righteous and just. |
- | | + | B. Those who know what is just and right ought (and are bound, |
- | cf. above, III. ix. 4) to do also what is just and right. | + | cf. above, III. ix. 4) to do also what is just and right. |
- | | + | Those who do what is just and right are righteous and just. |
- | | + | Ergo—Righteous and Just ({dikaioi}) may be defined as " |
- | who know what the law demands (aliter things right and just) | + | who know what the law demands (aliter things right and just) |
- | concerning men." | + | concerning men." |
I should say so myself (he answered). | I should say so myself (he answered). | ||
Line 3932: | Line 3932: | ||
(18) Or, "and no one who knows what he must and should do imagines | (18) Or, "and no one who knows what he must and should do imagines | ||
- | | + | that he must and should not do it?" |
No, I suppose not (he answered). | No, I suppose not (he answered). | ||
Line 3939: | Line 3939: | ||
(19) Or, "and nobody that you know of does the contrary of what he | (19) Or, "and nobody that you know of does the contrary of what he | ||
- | | + | thinks he should do?" |
No, I do not (he answered). | No, I do not (he answered). | ||
Line 3952: | Line 3952: | ||
(21) N.B.—In reference to this definition of justice, see K. Joel, | (21) N.B.—In reference to this definition of justice, see K. Joel, | ||
- | | + | op. cit. p. 323 foll., "Das ist eine Karrikatur des Sokratischen |
- | Dialogs." | + | |
Who else, if not? (he replied). | Who else, if not? (he replied). | ||
Line 3968: | Line 3968: | ||
(23) Or, "their wisdom is confined to that of which they have the | (23) Or, "their wisdom is confined to that of which they have the | ||
- | | + | {episteme}. How could a man be wise in what he lacks the knowledge |
- | of?" | + | |
Soc. In fact, then, the wise are wise in knowledge? | Soc. In fact, then, the wise are wise in knowledge? | ||
Line 3996: | Line 3996: | ||
(24) Cf. Plat. " | (24) Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | see K. Joel, ib. p. 324 foll. |
Soc. Well! come now, Euthydemus, as concerning the good: ought we to search for the good in this way? | Soc. Well! come now, Euthydemus, as concerning the good: ought we to search for the good in this way? | ||
Line 4013: | Line 4013: | ||
(25) Or reading (1) {allo d' an ti phaies e agathon einai to | (25) Or reading (1) {allo d' an ti phaies e agathon einai to | ||
- | | + | ophelimon}; or else (2) {allo d' an ti phaies agathon einai to |
- | ophelimon}; (in which case {alloti} = {allo ti e};) translate (1) | + | |
- | "and what is beneficial is good (or a good), should you not say?" | + | " |
- | lit. "could you say that the beneficial is anything else than good | + | lit. "could you say that the beneficial is anything else than good |
- | (or a good)?" | + | (or a good)?" |
- | good)? or is it anything else?" | + | |
Nothing else (he answered). | Nothing else (he answered). | ||
Line 4029: | Line 4029: | ||
(26) i.e. " | (26) i.e. " | ||
- | | + | {to de kalon ekhoimen an pos allos eipein e estin onomazein kalon |
- | e soma e skeuos e all' otioun, o oistha pros tanta kalon on; Ma | + | e soma e skeuos e all' otioun, o oistha pros tanta kalon on; Ma |
- | Di', ouk egog', ephe}. For other emendations of the vulg., and the | + | |
- | many interpretations which have been given to the passage, see R. | + | many interpretations which have been given to the passage, see R. |
- | Kuhner ad loc. | + | |
Euth. I confess I do not know of any such myself. (27) | Euth. I confess I do not know of any such myself. (27) | ||
(27) Or, adopting the reading {ekhois an} in place of {ekhoimen an} | (27) Or, adopting the reading {ekhois an} in place of {ekhoimen an} | ||
- | | + | above, translate "I certainly cannot, I confess." |
Soc. I presume to turn a thing to its proper use is to apply it beautifully? | Soc. I presume to turn a thing to its proper use is to apply it beautifully? | ||
Line 4045: | Line 4045: | ||
(28) Or, "I presume it is well and good and beautiful to use this, | (28) Or, "I presume it is well and good and beautiful to use this, | ||
- | | + | that, and the other thing for the purpose for which the particular |
- | thing is useful?" | + | thing is useful?" |
- | impossible to convey simply the verbal play and the quasi- | + | |
- | argumentative force of the Greek {kalos ekhei pros ti tini | + | |
- | khresthai}. See K. Joel, p. 426. | + | |
Soc. And is this, that, and the other thing beautiful for aught else except that to which it may be beautifully applied? | Soc. And is this, that, and the other thing beautiful for aught else except that to which it may be beautifully applied? | ||
Line 4062: | Line 4062: | ||
(29) Or, perhaps better, " | (29) Or, perhaps better, " | ||
- | | + | Ethics," |
(30) It is one of {ta kala}. See K. Joel, ib. p. 325, and in reference | (30) It is one of {ta kala}. See K. Joel, ib. p. 325, and in reference | ||
- | | + | to the definitions of the Good and of the Beautiful, ib. p. 425 |
- | foll. | + | foll. |
Nay, one of the most noble (he answered). | Nay, one of the most noble (he answered). | ||
Line 4109: | Line 4109: | ||
(33) Or, "Can it be said that those who are unable to cope nobly with | (33) Or, "Can it be said that those who are unable to cope nobly with | ||
- | | + | their perilous surroundings know how they ought to deal with |
- | them?" | + | |
I presume not (he answered). | I presume not (he answered). | ||
Line 4135: | Line 4135: | ||
(36) N.B.—For this definition of courage see Plat. " | (36) N.B.—For this definition of courage see Plat. " | ||
- | | + | and passim; K. Joel, op. cit. p. 325 foll. |
A kingdom and a tyranny (37) were, he opined, both of them forms of government, but forms which differed from one another, in his belief; a kingdom was a government over willing men in accordance with civil law, whereas a tyranny implied the government over unwilling subjects not according to law, but so as to suit the whims and wishes of the ruler. | A kingdom and a tyranny (37) were, he opined, both of them forms of government, but forms which differed from one another, in his belief; a kingdom was a government over willing men in accordance with civil law, whereas a tyranny implied the government over unwilling subjects not according to law, but so as to suit the whims and wishes of the ruler. | ||
Line 4144: | Line 4144: | ||
(38) Or, "in which the due discharge of lawful (law-appointed) | (38) Or, "in which the due discharge of lawful (law-appointed) | ||
- | | + | obligations gave the title to magisterial office and government, |
- | this form of polity he held to be an aristocracy (or rule of the | + | this form of polity he held to be an aristocracy (or rule of the |
- | best)." | + | |
Let me explain his method of reply where the disputant had no clear statement to make, but without attempt at proof chose to contend that such or such a person named by himself was wiser, or more of a statesman, or more courageous, and so forth, than some other person. (39) Socrates had a way of bringing the whole discussion back to the underlying proposition, | Let me explain his method of reply where the disputant had no clear statement to make, but without attempt at proof chose to contend that such or such a person named by himself was wiser, or more of a statesman, or more courageous, and so forth, than some other person. (39) Socrates had a way of bringing the whole discussion back to the underlying proposition, | ||
(39) Or, "if any one encountered him in argument about any topic or | (39) Or, "if any one encountered him in argument about any topic or | ||
- | | + | person without any clear statement, but a mere ipse dixit, devoid |
- | of demonstration, | + | of demonstration, |
(40) Or, " | (40) Or, " | ||
Line 4167: | Line 4167: | ||
(41) Or, "In the management of moneys, then, his strength will consist | (41) Or, "In the management of moneys, then, his strength will consist | ||
- | | + | in his rendering the state better provided with ways and means?" |
Certainly (the disputant would answer). | Certainly (the disputant would answer). | ||
Line 4190: | Line 4190: | ||
(43) Reading {tauton asphaleian}; | (43) Reading {tauton asphaleian}; | ||
- | | + | "that this security was part and parcel of reasoning." |
(44) " | (44) " | ||
- | | + | surely on its way" (Butcher and Lang), where Odysseus is |
- | describing himself. Cf. Dion. Hal. "de Arte Rhet." xi. 8. | + | |
The frankness and simplicity with which Socrates endeavoured to declare his own opinions, in dealing with those who conversed with him, (1) is, I think, conclusively proved by the above instances; at the same time, as I hope now to show, he was no less eager to cultivate a spirit of independence in others, which would enable them to stand alone in all transactions suited to their powers. | The frankness and simplicity with which Socrates endeavoured to declare his own opinions, in dealing with those who conversed with him, (1) is, I think, conclusively proved by the above instances; at the same time, as I hope now to show, he was no less eager to cultivate a spirit of independence in others, which would enable them to stand alone in all transactions suited to their powers. | ||
(1) Or, "who frequented his society, is, I hope, clear from what has | (1) Or, "who frequented his society, is, I hope, clear from what has | ||
- | | + | been said." |
Of all the men I have ever known, he was most anxious to ascertain in what any of those about him was really versed; and within the range of his own knowledge he showed the greatest zeal in teaching everything which it befits the true gentleman (2) to know; or where he was deficient in knowledge himself, (3) he would introduce his friends to those who knew. (4) He did not fail to teach them also up to what point it was proper for an educated man to acquire empiric knowledge of any particular matter. (5) | Of all the men I have ever known, he was most anxious to ascertain in what any of those about him was really versed; and within the range of his own knowledge he showed the greatest zeal in teaching everything which it befits the true gentleman (2) to know; or where he was deficient in knowledge himself, (3) he would introduce his friends to those who knew. (4) He did not fail to teach them also up to what point it was proper for an educated man to acquire empiric knowledge of any particular matter. (5) | ||
Line 4206: | Line 4206: | ||
(3) Or, "where he lacked acquaintance with the matter himself." | (3) Or, "where he lacked acquaintance with the matter himself." | ||
- | | + | for an instance, " |
(4) "To those who had the special knowledge"; | (4) "To those who had the special knowledge"; | ||
- | | + | matter." |
(5) Or, "of any particular branch of learning"; | (5) Or, "of any particular branch of learning"; | ||
- | | + | things." |
To take geometry as an instance: Every one (he would say) ought to be taught geometry so far, at any rate, as to be able, if necessary, to take over or part with a piece of land, or to divide it up or assign a portion of it for cultivation, | To take geometry as an instance: Every one (he would say) ought to be taught geometry so far, at any rate, as to be able, if necessary, to take over or part with a piece of land, or to divide it up or assign a portion of it for cultivation, | ||
(6) {e ergon apodeixasthai}, | (6) {e ergon apodeixasthai}, | ||
- | | + | Plat. " |
- | interpretations of the phrase. Cf. Max. Tyr. xxxvii. 7. | + | |
(7) Or, "by correct measurement"; | (7) Or, "by correct measurement"; | ||
(8) Cf. Aristot. " | (8) Cf. Aristot. " | ||
- | | + | For the attitude compare the attitude of a philosopher in other |
- | respects most unlike Socrates—August Comte, e.g. as to the | + | |
- | futility of sidereal astronomy, "Pos. Pol." i. 412 (Bridges). | + | |
(9) Cf. Isocr. "On the Antidosis," | (9) Cf. Isocr. "On the Antidosis," | ||
- | | + | " |
(10) Cf. A. Comte as to "perte intellectuelle" | (10) Cf. A. Comte as to "perte intellectuelle" | ||
- | | + | barren studies. |
Again, a certain practical knowledge of astronomy, a certain skill in the study of the stars, he strongly insisted on. Every one should know enough of the science to be able to discover the hour of the night or the season of the month or year, for the purposes of travel by land or sea—the march, the voyage, and the regulations of the watch; (11) and in general, with regard to all matters connected with the night season, or with the month, or the year, (12) it was well to have such reliable data to go upon as would serve to distinguish the various times and seasons. But these, again, were pieces of knowledge easily learnt from night sportsmen, (13) pilots of vessels, and many others who make it their business to know such things. As to pushing the study of astronomy so far as to include a knowledge of the movements of bodies outside our own orbit, whether planets or stars of eccentric movement, (14) or wearing oneself out endeavouring to discover their distances from the earth, their periods, and their causes, (15) all this he strongly discountenanced; | Again, a certain practical knowledge of astronomy, a certain skill in the study of the stars, he strongly insisted on. Every one should know enough of the science to be able to discover the hour of the night or the season of the month or year, for the purposes of travel by land or sea—the march, the voyage, and the regulations of the watch; (11) and in general, with regard to all matters connected with the night season, or with the month, or the year, (12) it was well to have such reliable data to go upon as would serve to distinguish the various times and seasons. But these, again, were pieces of knowledge easily learnt from night sportsmen, (13) pilots of vessels, and many others who make it their business to know such things. As to pushing the study of astronomy so far as to include a knowledge of the movements of bodies outside our own orbit, whether planets or stars of eccentric movement, (14) or wearing oneself out endeavouring to discover their distances from the earth, their periods, and their causes, (15) all this he strongly discountenanced; | ||
Line 4238: | Line 4238: | ||
(12) " | (12) " | ||
- | | + | the festival of the Karneia, the {tekmerion} (point de repere) of |
- | which is the full moon of August. Cf. Eur. " | + | which is the full moon of August. Cf. Eur. " |
(13) See Plat. " | (13) See Plat. " | ||
- | | + | " |
(14) See Lewis, " | (14) See Lewis, " | ||
- | | + | 144. |
(15) Or, "the causes of these." | (15) Or, "the causes of these." | ||
(16) {oude touton ge anekoos en}. He had " | (16) {oude touton ge anekoos en}. He had " | ||
- | | + | Archelaus, a pupil of Anaxagoras. Cf. Cic. " |
And to speak generally, in regard of things celestial he set his face against attempts to excogitate the machinery by which the divine power formed its several operations. (17) Not only were these matters beyond man's faculties to discover, as he believed, but the attempt to search out what the gods had not chosen to reveal could hardly (he supposed) be well pleasing in their sight. Indeed, the man who tortured his brains about such subjects stood a fair chance of losing his wits entirely, just as Anaxagoras, (18) the headiest speculator of them all, in his attempt to explain the divine mechanism, had somewhat lost his head. Anaxagoras took on himself to assert that sun and fire are identical, (19) ignoring the fact that human beings can easily look at fire, but to gaze steadily into the face of the sun is given to no man; or that under the influence of his rays the colour of the skin changes, but under the rays of fire not. (20) He forgot that no plant or vegetation springs from earth' | And to speak generally, in regard of things celestial he set his face against attempts to excogitate the machinery by which the divine power formed its several operations. (17) Not only were these matters beyond man's faculties to discover, as he believed, but the attempt to search out what the gods had not chosen to reveal could hardly (he supposed) be well pleasing in their sight. Indeed, the man who tortured his brains about such subjects stood a fair chance of losing his wits entirely, just as Anaxagoras, (18) the headiest speculator of them all, in his attempt to explain the divine mechanism, had somewhat lost his head. Anaxagoras took on himself to assert that sun and fire are identical, (19) ignoring the fact that human beings can easily look at fire, but to gaze steadily into the face of the sun is given to no man; or that under the influence of his rays the colour of the skin changes, but under the rays of fire not. (20) He forgot that no plant or vegetation springs from earth' | ||
(17) Or, "he tried to divert one from becoming overly-wise in heavenly | (17) Or, "he tried to divert one from becoming overly-wise in heavenly | ||
- | | + | matters and the ' |
- | operations." | + | |
(18) Of Clazomenae. Cf. Plat. " | (18) Of Clazomenae. Cf. Plat. " | ||
- | | + | " |
- | 501. | + | 501. |
(19) Or, "that the sun was simply a fire, forgetting so simple a fact | (19) Or, "that the sun was simply a fire, forgetting so simple a fact | ||
- | | + | as that." |
(20) Or, "the complexion darkens, whereas fire has no such effect." | (20) Or, "the complexion darkens, whereas fire has no such effect." | ||
Line 4270: | Line 4270: | ||
(21) {logismous} = (1) " | (21) {logismous} = (1) " | ||
- | | + | " |
- | Kuhner ad loc.; cf. Plat. " | + | |
- | which form of " | + | which form of " |
(22) Or, "to find a doctor better able than himself to ' | (22) Or, "to find a doctor better able than himself to ' | ||
- | | + | prescribe a treatment congenial to health." |
- | 46; Plut. "de San." 136 E, ap. Schneid. ad loc. | + | 46; Plut. "de San." 136 E, ap. Schneid. ad loc. |
Where any one came seeking for help which no human wisdom could supply, he would counsel him to give heed to " | Where any one came seeking for help which no human wisdom could supply, he would counsel him to give heed to " | ||
Line 4283: | Line 4283: | ||
(1) Or, "the words of Socrates with regard to a divine something which | (1) Or, "the words of Socrates with regard to a divine something which | ||
- | | + | warned him," etc. |
(2) The phraseology is poetical. | (2) The phraseology is poetical. | ||
Line 4290: | Line 4290: | ||
(4) Or, " | (4) Or, " | ||
- | | + | unbroken spirit of its delivery, and the absolute rectitude of the |
- | speaker." | + | |
(5) i.e. the lesser " | (5) i.e. the lesser " | ||
- | | + | instituted, it was said, by Theseus. See Plut. " |
- | (Clough, i. 19); and for the whole matter see Plat. " | + | |
- | foll. | + | foll. |
(6) Cf. Arist. " | (6) Cf. Arist. " | ||
- | | + | eukolos d' ekei}. |
(Let us pause and ask how could man die more nobly and more | (Let us pause and ask how could man die more nobly and more | ||
Line 4309: | Line 4309: | ||
(7) This is bracketed as spurious by Sauppe and other commentators. | (7) This is bracketed as spurious by Sauppe and other commentators. | ||
- | | + | But see " |
- | R. Kuhner defends the passage as genuine. | + | R. Kuhner defends the passage as genuine. |
And now I will mention further certain things which I have heard from Hermogenes, the son of Hipponicus, (8) concerning him. He said that even after Meletus (9) had drawn up the indictment, he himself used to hear Socrates conversing and discussing everything rather than the suit impending, and had ventured to suggest that he ought to be considering the line of his defence, to which, in the first instance, the master answered: "Do I not seem to you to have been practising that my whole life long?" And upon his asking " | And now I will mention further certain things which I have heard from Hermogenes, the son of Hipponicus, (8) concerning him. He said that even after Meletus (9) had drawn up the indictment, he himself used to hear Socrates conversing and discussing everything rather than the suit impending, and had ventured to suggest that he ought to be considering the line of his defence, to which, in the first instance, the master answered: "Do I not seem to you to have been practising that my whole life long?" And upon his asking " | ||
(8) See above, II. x. 3; " | (8) See above, II. x. 3; " | ||
- | | + | " |
(9) See above, I. i. 1. | (9) See above, I. i. 1. | ||
Line 4324: | Line 4324: | ||
(12) Or, "There floats before my eyes a vision of the many who have | (12) Or, "There floats before my eyes a vision of the many who have | ||
- | | + | gone this same gate. I note their legacies of fame among |
- | posterity." | + | |
Such are the words which he spoke in conversation with Hermogenes and the rest. But amongst those who knew Socrates and recognised what manner of man he was, all who make virtue and perfection their pursuit still to this day cease not to lament his loss with bitterest regret, as for one who helped them in the pursuit of virtue as none else could. | Such are the words which he spoke in conversation with Hermogenes and the rest. But amongst those who knew Socrates and recognised what manner of man he was, all who make virtue and perfection their pursuit still to this day cease not to lament his loss with bitterest regret, as for one who helped them in the pursuit of virtue as none else could. | ||
Line 4332: | Line 4332: | ||
(13) Or, "of such piety and religious devotedness... of such | (13) Or, "of such piety and religious devotedness... of such | ||
- | | + | rectitude... of such sobreity and self-control... of such |
- | sound sense and wisdom..." | + | sound sense and wisdom..." |
(14) Or, " | (14) Or, " | ||
- | | + | moral subtleties." |
(15) Or, "I look upon him as at once the best and happiest of men." | (15) Or, "I look upon him as at once the best and happiest of men." | ||
Such is our estimate. If the verdict fail to satisfy I would ask those who disagree with it to place the character of any other side by side with this delineation, | Such is our estimate. If the verdict fail to satisfy I would ask those who disagree with it to place the character of any other side by side with this delineation, |
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