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text:memorabilia_of_socrates [2013/09/22 14:55] fredmondtext:memorabilia_of_socrates [2014/01/15 11:58] (current) – external edit 127.0.0.1
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 But there was a passage from Homer (32) for ever on his lips, as the accuser tells us—the passage which says concerning Odysseus, But there was a passage from Homer (32) for ever on his lips, as the accuser tells us—the passage which says concerning Odysseus,
  
-    What prince, or man of name, +What prince, or man of name, 
-    He found flight-giv'n, he would restrain with words of gentlest blame: +He found flight-giv'n, he would restrain with words of gentlest blame: 
-    "Good sir, it fits you not to fly, or fare as one afraid, +"Good sir, it fits you not to fly, or fare as one afraid, 
-    You should not only stay yourself, but see the people stayed."+You should not only stay yourself, but see the people stayed."
  
-     Thus he the best sort us'd; the worst, whose spirits brake out in + Thus he the best sort us'd; the worst, whose spirits brake out in 
-     noise, (33) He cudgell'd with his sceptre, chid, and said, "Stay, + noise, (33) He cudgell'd with his sceptre, chid, and said, "Stay, 
-     wretch, be still, And hear thy betters; thou art base, and both in + wretch, be still, And hear thy betters; thou art base, and both in 
-     power and skill Poor and unworthy, without name in counsel or in + power and skill Poor and unworthy, without name in counsel or in 
-     war." We must not all be kings.+ war." We must not all be kings.
  
  (31) See below, III. ix. 9.  (31) See below, III. ix. 9.
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 If with scant means he offered but small sacrifices he believed that he was in no wise inferior to those who make frequent and large sacrifices from an ampler store. It were ill surely for the very gods themselves, could they take delight in large sacrifices rather than in small, else oftentimes must the offerings of bad men be found acceptable rather than of good; nor from the point of view of men themselves would life be worth living if the offerings of a villain rather than of a righteous man found favour in the sight of Heaven. His belief was that the joy of the gods is greater in proportion to the holiness of the giver, and he was ever an admirer of that line of Hesiod which says, If with scant means he offered but small sacrifices he believed that he was in no wise inferior to those who make frequent and large sacrifices from an ampler store. It were ill surely for the very gods themselves, could they take delight in large sacrifices rather than in small, else oftentimes must the offerings of bad men be found acceptable rather than of good; nor from the point of view of men themselves would life be worth living if the offerings of a villain rather than of a righteous man found favour in the sight of Heaven. His belief was that the joy of the gods is greater in proportion to the holiness of the giver, and he was ever an admirer of that line of Hesiod which says,
  
-    According to thine ability do sacrifice to the immortal gods. (4)+According to thine ability do sacrifice to the immortal gods. (4)
  
  (4) Hesiod, "Works and Days," 336. See "Anab." III. ii. 9.  (4) Hesiod, "Works and Days," 336. See "Anab." III. ii. 9.
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  (5) Cf. Aristot. "de Part. Animal." 1. For the "teleological" views  (5) Cf. Aristot. "de Part. Animal." 1. For the "teleological" views
-    see IV. iii. 2 foll.+see IV. iii. 2 foll.
  
  (6) "Like a sieve" or "colander."  (6) "Like a sieve" or "colander."
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  (3) Or, "how should the master himself beware lest he fall into that  (3) Or, "how should the master himself beware lest he fall into that
-    category."+category."
  
  (4) {krepida}. See Pind. "Pyth." iv. 138; ib. vii. 3; ib. fr. 93.  (4) {krepida}. See Pind. "Pyth." iv. 138; ib. vii. 3; ib. fr. 93.
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 Soc. What, Aristippus, does it not seem to you that, as regards such matters, there is all the difference between voluntary and involuntary suffering, in that he who starves of his own accord can eat when he chooses, and he who thirsts of his own free will can drink, and so for the rest; but he who suffers in these ways perforce cannot desist from the suffering when the humour takes him? Again, he who suffers hardship voluntarily, gaily confronts his troubles, being buoyed on hope (23)—just as a hunter in pursuit of wild beasts, through hope of capturing his quarry, finds toil a pleasure—and these are but prizes of little worth in return for their labours; but what shall we say of their reward who toil to obtain to themselves good friends, or to subdue their enemies, or that through strength of body and soul they may administer their households well, befriend their friends, and benefit the land which gave them birth? Must we not suppose that these too will take their sorrows lightly, looking to these high ends? Must we not suppose that they too will gaily confront existence, who have to support them not only their conscious virtue, but the praise and admiration of the world? (24) And once more, habits of indolence, along with the fleeting pleasures of the moment, are incapable, as gymnastic trainers say, of setting up (25) a good habit of body, or of implanting in the soul any knowledge worthy of account; whereas by painstaking endeavour in the pursuit of high and noble deeds, as good men tell us, through endurance we shall in the end attain the goal. So Hesiod somewhere says: (26) Soc. What, Aristippus, does it not seem to you that, as regards such matters, there is all the difference between voluntary and involuntary suffering, in that he who starves of his own accord can eat when he chooses, and he who thirsts of his own free will can drink, and so for the rest; but he who suffers in these ways perforce cannot desist from the suffering when the humour takes him? Again, he who suffers hardship voluntarily, gaily confronts his troubles, being buoyed on hope (23)—just as a hunter in pursuit of wild beasts, through hope of capturing his quarry, finds toil a pleasure—and these are but prizes of little worth in return for their labours; but what shall we say of their reward who toil to obtain to themselves good friends, or to subdue their enemies, or that through strength of body and soul they may administer their households well, befriend their friends, and benefit the land which gave them birth? Must we not suppose that these too will take their sorrows lightly, looking to these high ends? Must we not suppose that they too will gaily confront existence, who have to support them not only their conscious virtue, but the praise and admiration of the world? (24) And once more, habits of indolence, along with the fleeting pleasures of the moment, are incapable, as gymnastic trainers say, of setting up (25) a good habit of body, or of implanting in the soul any knowledge worthy of account; whereas by painstaking endeavour in the pursuit of high and noble deeds, as good men tell us, through endurance we shall in the end attain the goal. So Hesiod somewhere says: (26)
  
-    Wickedness may a man take wholesale with ease, smooth is the way +Wickedness may a man take wholesale with ease, smooth is the way 
-    and her dwelling-place is very nigh; but in front of virtue the +and her dwelling-place is very nigh; but in front of virtue the 
-    immortal gods have placed toil and sweat, long is the path and +immortal gods have placed toil and sweat, long is the path and 
-    steep that leads to her, and rugged at the first, but when the +steep that leads to her, and rugged at the first, but when the 
-    summit of the pass is reached, then for all its roughness the path +summit of the pass is reached, then for all its roughness the path 
-    grows easy.+grows easy.
  
  (23) Cf. above, I. vi. 8.  (23) Cf. above, I. vi. 8.
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 And Ephicharmus (27) bears his testimony when he says: And Ephicharmus (27) bears his testimony when he says:
  
-    The gods sell us all good things in return for our labours.+The gods sell us all good things in return for our labours.
  
  (27) Epicharmus of Cos, the chief comic poet among the Dorians, fl.  (27) Epicharmus of Cos, the chief comic poet among the Dorians, fl.
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 And again in another passage he exclaims: And again in another passage he exclaims:
  
-    Set not thine heart on soft things, thou knave, lest thou light +Set not thine heart on soft things, thou knave, lest thou light 
-    upon the hard.+upon the hard.
  
 And that wise man Prodicus (28) delivers himself in a like strain concerning virtue in that composition of his about Heracles, which crowds have listened to. (29) This, as far as I can recollect it, is the substance at least of what he says: And that wise man Prodicus (28) delivers himself in a like strain concerning virtue in that composition of his about Heracles, which crowds have listened to. (29) This, as far as I can recollect it, is the substance at least of what he says:
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  (2) Or, "Nor had he failed to observe another striking contrast." Cf.  (2) Or, "Nor had he failed to observe another striking contrast." Cf.
-    Cic. "Lael." 17; Diog. Laert. ii. 30.+Cic. "Lael." 17; Diog. Laert. ii. 30.
  
  (3) i.e. "like a chess-player recalling a move."  (3) i.e. "like a chess-player recalling a move."
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  (4) "A vessel fit for all work indeed is this friend." Cf. Ar. "Ach."  (4) "A vessel fit for all work indeed is this friend." Cf. Ar. "Ach."
-    936, {pagkhreston aggos estai}, like the "leather bottel."+936, {pagkhreston aggos estai}, like the "leather bottel."
  
  (5) Or, "by dint of his diplomacy."  (5) Or, "by dint of his diplomacy."
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 Soc. You need not go farther than Homer to learn that which the Sirens sang to Odysseus, (9) the first words of which run, I think, as follows: Soc. You need not go farther than Homer to learn that which the Sirens sang to Odysseus, (9) the first words of which run, I think, as follows:
  
-    Hither, come hither, thou famous man, Odysseus, great glory of the +Hither, come hither, thou famous man, Odysseus, great glory of the 
-    Achaeans!+Achaeans!
  
  (9) "Od." xii. 184.  (9) "Od." xii. 184.
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 Soc. Why did Homer, think you, designate Agamemnon "shepherd of the peoples"? (1) Was it possibly to show that, even as a shepherd must care for his sheep and see that they are safe and have all things needful, and that the objects of their rearing be secured, so also must a general take care that his soldiers are safe and have their supplies, and attain the objects of their soldiering? Which last is that they may get the mastery of their enemies, and so add to their own good fortune and happiness; or tell me, what made him praise Agamemnon, saying— Soc. Why did Homer, think you, designate Agamemnon "shepherd of the peoples"? (1) Was it possibly to show that, even as a shepherd must care for his sheep and see that they are safe and have all things needful, and that the objects of their rearing be secured, so also must a general take care that his soldiers are safe and have their supplies, and attain the objects of their soldiering? Which last is that they may get the mastery of their enemies, and so add to their own good fortune and happiness; or tell me, what made him praise Agamemnon, saying—
  
-    He is both a good king and a warrior bold? (2)+He is both a good king and a warrior bold? (2)
  
 Did he mean, perhaps, to imply that he would be a 'warrior bold,' not merely in standing alone and bravely battling against the foe, but as inspiring the whole of his host with like prowess; and by a 'good king,' not merely one who should stand forth gallantly to protect his own life, but who should be the source of happiness to all over whom he reigns? Since a man is not chosen king in order to take heed to himself, albeit nobly, but that those who chose him may attain to happiness through him. And why do men go soldiering except to ameliorate existence? (3) and to this end they choose their generals that they may find in them guides to the goal in question. He, then, who undertakes that office is bound to procure for those who choose him the thing they seek for. And indeed it were not easy to find any nobler ambition than this, or aught ignobler than its opposite. Did he mean, perhaps, to imply that he would be a 'warrior bold,' not merely in standing alone and bravely battling against the foe, but as inspiring the whole of his host with like prowess; and by a 'good king,' not merely one who should stand forth gallantly to protect his own life, but who should be the source of happiness to all over whom he reigns? Since a man is not chosen king in order to take heed to himself, albeit nobly, but that those who chose him may attain to happiness through him. And why do men go soldiering except to ameliorate existence? (3) and to this end they choose their generals that they may find in them guides to the goal in question. He, then, who undertakes that office is bound to procure for those who choose him the thing they seek for. And indeed it were not easy to find any nobler ambition than this, or aught ignobler than its opposite.
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  (6) L. and S. cf. Plat. "Lys." 223 A; "Rep." 329 B: "Wishing to draw  (6) L. and S. cf. Plat. "Lys." 223 A; "Rep." 329 B: "Wishing to draw
-    him out."+him out."
  
  (7) Cf. Plat. "Alc." i. 118 C: "And Pericles is said not to have got  (7) Cf. Plat. "Alc." i. 118 C: "And Pericles is said not to have got
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  (19) Of Cyrene (cf. Plat. "Theaet.") taught Plato. Diog. Laert. ii. 8,  (19) Of Cyrene (cf. Plat. "Theaet.") taught Plato. Diog. Laert. ii. 8,
-    19.+19.
  
 Euth. No, nor yet a mathematician. Euth. No, nor yet a mathematician.
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  being the middle term of the double syllogism (A and B)—  being the middle term of the double syllogism (A and B)—
  
-    A.  Those who do what the law demands concerning men do what is +A.  Those who do what the law demands concerning men do what is 
-        just and right.+just and right.
  
-        Those who do what is just and right are righteous and just.+Those who do what is just and right are righteous and just.
  
-        Ergo—Those who do what the law demands concerning men are +Ergo—Those who do what the law demands concerning men are 
-        righteous and just.+righteous and just.
  
-    B.  Those who know what is just and right ought (and are bound, +B.  Those who know what is just and right ought (and are bound, 
-        cf. above, III. ix. 4) to do also what is just and right.+cf. above, III. ix. 4) to do also what is just and right.
  
-        Those who do what is just and right are righteous and just.+Those who do what is just and right are righteous and just.
  
-        Ergo—Righteous and Just ({dikaioi}) may be defined as "Those +Ergo—Righteous and Just ({dikaioi}) may be defined as "Those 
-        who know what the law demands (aliter things right and just) +who know what the law demands (aliter things right and just) 
-        concerning men."+concerning men."
  
 I should say so myself (he answered). I should say so myself (he answered).
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  (27) Or, adopting the reading {ekhois an} in place of {ekhoimen an}  (27) Or, adopting the reading {ekhois an} in place of {ekhoimen an}
-    above, translate "I certainly cannot, I confess."+above, translate "I certainly cannot, I confess."
  
 Soc. I presume to turn a thing to its proper use is to apply it beautifully? Soc. I presume to turn a thing to its proper use is to apply it beautifully?
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  (36) N.B.—For this definition of courage see Plat. "Laches," 195 A  (36) N.B.—For this definition of courage see Plat. "Laches," 195 A
-    and passim; K. Joel, op. cit. p. 325 foll.+and passim; K. Joel, op. cit. p. 325 foll.
  
 A kingdom and a tyranny (37) were, he opined, both of them forms of government, but forms which differed from one another, in his belief; a kingdom was a government over willing men in accordance with civil law, whereas a tyranny implied the government over unwilling subjects not according to law, but so as to suit the whims and wishes of the ruler. A kingdom and a tyranny (37) were, he opined, both of them forms of government, but forms which differed from one another, in his belief; a kingdom was a government over willing men in accordance with civil law, whereas a tyranny implied the government over unwilling subjects not according to law, but so as to suit the whims and wishes of the ruler.
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